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Apple File System

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple File System

#211
post #125
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, is there any other good FS to use for desktop Linux (on an SSD on ArchLinux) or is Ext4 still the recommended standard?

Depends on your needs. Stability, reliability: ext4/XFS CoW, snapshots, multi-drive FS: ZFS/btrfs SSD speed, longevity: F2FS

I think it could be mentioned that most of the features regarding CoW and snapshots could be provided by LVM these days.

Re: Apple File System

#212
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Can't be used as the startup disk" is not necessarily a strong limitation; with FileVault enabled, you start up from your Recovery partition anyway. Even if they lose FileVault, I would guess they'll keep the Recovery partition setup (since they've invested in it a bit as a pseudo-BIOS, for changing things like SIP.) So that image can stay HFS and hold your boot kernel, while "Macintosh HD" can just be APFS. Sort of…

/boot on FAT32 is mostly an artifact of UEFI these days. When I set up BIOS-based systems, I usually had /boot on ext2.

Or even ext4. But I think the parent's point was that you'd keep your boot partition out of LVM.

Re: Apple File System

#213
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably too technical for a typical keynote watcher

Typical World Wide Developer Conference watcher? If so, that's a shame!

Well, have you seen the comments on Reddit and MacRumors and the like? You'd think anything above "dark mode" and a new MacBook model would be over their heads.

Most people do seem to assume that the WWDC is an hour~ long commercial for everything Apple is going to do for the rest of the year.

Re: Apple File System

#214
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they deploy it case insensitive, still?

According to their documented "Current Limitations" ( https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/docum... ): > Case Sensitivity: Filenames are currently case-sensitive only. First thought: they have seen the light! A moment later: wait...they consider this a "limitation", and it's only "currently" the case. So maybe they're going to perpetuate the brain-damage anyway. Sigh.

Just as with HFS+ and ZFS, case-insensitivity will be an option.

Re: Apple File System

#215
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control over hardware doesn't really buy you anything here. Just about any hardware can use any filesystem with, in the worst case, the requirement that you have a small boot partition using the legacy filesystem.

Interestingly with SSD storage devices, control of the hardware can help a lot more as it can become possible to categorize, fully explore and if needed, ensure a particular behavior of commands like TRIM. Other filesystems have the unenviable task of running on any random piece of storage you throw at it, including things where the firmware straight up lies, or the hardware delays non-volatility past the point the f…

That doesn't really change anything about the filesystem design. A storage device can fail to write data it claims to have because of damage as well as design defects. When that happens, a reliable filesystem will detect it and a less reliable filesystem will catch on fire.

It also doesn't help to control 100% of the built-in storage if anybody can still plug in $GENERIC_USB_MASS_STORAGE_DEVICE and expect to use the same filesystem.

Re: Apple File System

#216
post #102

No snapshotting yet, can't boot, no migration tools for existing setups (time machine, filevault, fusion). It'd be interesting to see whether their permission changes introduced in 10.11 will travel further down the fs. Also, I don't see any mention of compression like lz4. Lots of work until release in 2017!

Is compression really that big a deal any more?

lz4 really helps with anything that is compressible - if you store text or compressible data it can improve throughput up to 2-3x if not even more if it's not compressible it stops compressing early. On a modern CPU core compression/decompression throughput is in the range of multiple gigabytes/seconds.

Re: Apple File System

#217
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ZFS needs very little memory to run. Performance is definitely better with more RAM, but the overwhelming use of memory in ZFS is for cache. Eviction is not particularly efficient due to the cache being allocated from the SLAB allocator, but that is changing later this year. Getting ZFS to run on the Apple Watch is definitely possible. I am not sure what acceptably means here. It is an ambiguous term.

ZFS de-duplication will eat all of the RAM you can throw at it. Otherwise, it is basically the SLUB memory block allocator that was used in the Linux kernel for a while. So yes, it can run on watchOS-level amount of RAM.

ZFS data deduplication does not require much more ram than the non-deduplicated case. Performance will depend heavily on IOPS when the DDT entries are not in cache, but the system will run slowly even with miniscule RAM.

Re: Apple File System

#218
post #19

No checksumming?

Checksumming makes no sense on modern hardware. Hard Drives and SSDs use CRCs already. When a sector goes bad on a hard drive, the firmware will mess about retrying and altering the analog amplifiers to try to get the signal back. If it gets the data back, it might "recover" by moving the data to spare sectors. Without a CRC, the firmware would have no way of differentiating between a sector read correctly and one th…

At least with bigger SATA disks I see regularly checksum errors on btrfs/ZFS and a rising bad sector count. The disk usually replaces the sectors on the next write but when reading it returns either zeros or wrong data. It's nice to know what files are affected from bad sectors. It's not common but common enough to have it.

Re: Apple File System

#219
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably too technical for a typical keynote watcher

Typical World Wide Developer Conference watcher? If so, that's a shame!

Opening Keynote is really for the press, it'll probably be mentioned more prominently in the State of the Union keynotes and in its own session.

Re: Apple File System

#220
post #200

While I am happy that Apple have at last committed to replacing HFS+, I'm wondering why they didn't use ZFS rather than reinventing the wheel. It's not like it's a particularly easy wheel to reinvent either; the amount of effort which goes into a filesystem like ZFS is non-trivial. Why not build on top of that? I would have greatly appreciated being able to use ZFS with MacOS X, for datasets, snapshots, sending them…

I think the barriers to getting ZFS into OS-X were probably legal, not technical ones. There's long history of the CDDL tripping up reasonable attempts to use ZFS and I doubt Apple would have wanted to proceed without approval and/or alternate licensing. Likewise Oracle has no real reason to let them do that without writing a check with lots of zeros on it.

There's also a decent chunk of what ZFS supports (particularly flexible volume pool management) that would be useless on almost every machine that Apple makes and sells. Your example of pulling a drive out of one machine and putting it in another is either impossible (soldered-on storage) or highly unlikely (user-serviceable SSD, but hidden behind a bunch of pentalobe screws) with their modern hardware lineup.

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