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Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

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Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#91
Well, the issue with coding is that in theory a good CTO makes way more money.

I am dealing with the same problem, though I am not sure what makes me happy exactly. I think sometimes we get into this carrier path thing and just move forward through inertia. Things are good on paper, but in reality you feel like crap.

I don't know, I am slowly trying to move away from my current job. I am planning to use savings to buy websites, the idea kind of excites me, which is a great feeling to have.

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#92

I'm surprised that no-one has suggested getting a VP Eng alongside you. http://avc.com/2011/10/vp-engineering-vs-cto/

I can't up vote this enough, this absolutely true.

This is the same arrangement I have at my company (me the CTO), I can focus on the code, architecture, devops and the VP Eng. can help build the team, work out personal troubles with the developers. Obviously there needs to be a good relation between the two for this to work.

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#93
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I certainly see evidence of this in the workplace, I also see that this kind of leader would be exceptionally valuable to any organization. You'd think!! I have a few theories as to why this is so: The most charitable interpretation is that, since technically competent business leaders are so incredibly rare (set aside that every engineer thinks they can do it), there's no design pattern for that leader. Owne…

Why would a techie want a MBA job below VP level? Most don't want to be advertising account managers or business analysts either. Does that matter?

tl;dr: If there's no reason to get an MBA as a promotion-track engineer, then not only will none of your promoted engineers will have MBAs, none of your promoted MBAs will have practical experience being a great engineer.

They wouldn't, of course. And that's really the problem.

If you don't have mid-level technical managers with MBAs, you don't get to promote/hire VP-level technical MBAs.

An MBA does teach a lot of valuable skills. As many smart technical founders/leaders have crashed up against the corporate rocks of running a major division/initiative as business leaders failed due to distance from execution.

Right now though there's no role, and no opportunity, for a mid-tier (post-MBA) capital-E engineer. So there will be no MBA-toting, engineering-aware VPs.

Without business-fluent engineers (or engineering-fluent business folks) companies are deprived of interdisciplinary innovation. You get financial programs which ignore technical needs, and great inventions which don't have a market. Promotion which doesn't represent reality and deals which can't be executed.

Most of the frustration engineers have with business people is not that business folks can't do business well, but that they don't do so understanding the underlying technology.

And until there's a reason to want a techie MBA (or business-y Eng) at a sub-VP level, this isn't going to get better.

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#94

Key question is WHY did you take up this job in the first place? Do you really believe in the mission of this company or just the CTO title and a lucrative pay attracted you here. If you truly believe in the mission of the company, you're doing the right thing by taking all crap and making progress towards end goals. You are probably not coding because your time is better spent doing what you're doing now. Will you m…

I have to agree. In my experience some of the best managers have been the ones who shielded their employees from bullshit, taking the brunt, making sure we can keep moving quickly towards completing the goals.

This is one of the main goals of a tech manager: "some of the best managers have been the ones who shielded their employees from bullshit". If a manager of a tech group isn't doing that, they're failing at their job, and likely have some form of attrition problems, quality issues, feeling of uncontrolled chaos, etc.

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#95
post #87

tl;dr: in your situation many people go off and get an MBA. Don't do that. There's a reason there's only one CTO in HBS' 60,000 person alumni database (I am she.) I was a very hands-on CTO for years after a decade of coding, and broadly enjoyed it. But as the teams I managed grew it became increasingly unfulfilling. When you're CTO, you're often excluded from business decisions which have a bigger impact on your team…

? The mid/senior leadership of the best known companies hires all thr available techie MBAs. There are few CTOs because a 50K employee company only has 1 CTO. Others are CEO, COO, CIO. A mid/senior person at a big company is similar to a CxO at a small company.

> The mid/senior leadership of the best known companies hires all thr available techie MBAs.

This is false, and also misses the point.

I went through two recruiting cycles at HBS (Harvard Business School), which is one of the largest (~1000/yr) and most representative business schools. I did not see a single position advertised which required actual engineering experience. I was also one of three people (in 1000) who had a job before school which required writing code.

There were plenty of companies which would have loved to hire a solid engineer, but the job they'd be hired into would neither require nor use those skills. I could certainly go work in Product Management at Google, for instance; but why would I want to? My better path to VP at Google would be as a coder (if I wanted to be a VP at Google).

> There are few CTOs because a 50K employee company only has 1 CTO. Others are CEO, COO, CIO.

There is 1 CTO in the HBS alumni database. There are more than 36,000 CEOs. CEO-CTO is probably ~2:1 in the real world.

ps: data mining the HBS Alumni database is fascinating, btw!

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#96
I have the opposite problem, which is that I think I would enjoy and be good at a CTO type role, but since I don't have a personal background as a coder, I'm not sure how to move toward it. Almost all the job listings I've seen require a CS degree and a decade+ of experience as a developer. Startups, in particular, seem to believe that CTO = lead coder.

I've managed websites for years, overseeing design and development teams, setting product roadmaps, negotiating contracts, even testing and debugging websites and server configuration. I understand the stack of technologies that make up a website, although I have not written web applications myself. The little bit of code I've written is on the margins: shell scripts, one-off JS widgets, etc.

I'm not bad at managing people, and I enjoy it. I'm not bad at managing peer and executive relationships, and I enjoy it. These are the sorts of things that a lot of developers seem to really dislike about elevating into CTO.

So: is it possible to land a CTO role without being a experienced and expert code-writer? Or am I thinking of the wrong thing?

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#97
Maybe seek out a VP Engineering role at a smaller company. To me VP of Eng is usually more hands-on technical vs CTO which is more strategic like applying technology to business and big picture.

Not sure how old you are but a CTO role might make more sense later in life.

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#98

tl;dr: in your situation many people go off and get an MBA. Don't do that. There's a reason there's only one CTO in HBS' 60,000 person alumni database (I am she.) I was a very hands-on CTO for years after a decade of coding, and broadly enjoyed it. But as the teams I managed grew it became increasingly unfulfilling. When you're CTO, you're often excluded from business decisions which have a bigger impact on your team…

+1!

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, there's no real place in the world for a highly technical business leader. While I certainly see evidence of this in the workplace, I also see that this kind of leader would be exceptionally valuable to any organization. Do you find that the issue here is that companies already at scale have separated concerns so highly that the management skills are more valued (so technical leaders go to startups /…

> While I certainly see evidence of this in the workplace, I also see that this kind of leader would be exceptionally valuable to any organization. You'd think!! I have a few theories as to why this is so: The most charitable interpretation is that, since technically competent business leaders are so incredibly rare (set aside that every engineer thinks they can do it), there's no design pattern for that leader. Owne…

+1!

Re: Ask HN: I don't enjoy being a CTO. Now what?

#100
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a techie want a MBA job below VP level? Most don't want to be advertising account managers or business analysts either. Does that matter?

tl;dr: If there's no reason to get an MBA as a promotion-track engineer, then not only will none of your promoted engineers will have MBAs, none of your promoted MBAs will have practical experience being a great engineer. They wouldn't, of course. And that's really the problem. If you don't have mid-level technical managers with MBAs, you don't get to promote/hire VP-level technical MBAs. An MBA does teach a lot of v…

+1!
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