Live data from Hacker News

Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

wsj.com

101–110 of 153 posts

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#101

It still baffles me that Walgreens got into this partnership in the first place. A complete failure of due diligence.

Wallgreens will try anything to make a buck. They sold out a long time ago.

They don't do anything well. I think their corporate mission is literally open up shop in the sketchy part of town, and stock the shelfs with Chinese crap that only a person on drugs would buy? Oh yea, mark up the stuff people actually need--maybe they won't notice?

As to their Pharmacy services; they don't even do the bare minimum. I kinda understand not filling out a TAR request. I get it, but I hope the state comes down on you hard.

I don't get not contacting doctors for refills. I have never met a doctor who literally didn't say this, "Walgreens has giving me the most trouble over the years." If there's a doctor on this site who disagrees, please speak up.

Enough said on the wonderful Wallgreens.

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#102
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like institutionalized discrimination, prohibiting this has no teeth when nobody can prove it's happening.

> prohibiting this has no teeth when nobody can prove it's happening If you take a job, find the experience to diametrically-opposed to how it was represented on GlassDoor and suspect your hirer of astro-turfing, a lawsuit with discovery would quickly uncover the action.

Oh god how I wish people would start thinking just a single cycle ahead in terms of unintended consequences before knee-jerking into outlawing things.

Seriously, what could possibly go wrong when companies can get sued over the inaccuracies of anonymous third-party review websites?

Reminder: you don't need to lose a lawsuit for one to be enormously costly.

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#103

Are the tests just completely worthless? I thought the FDA or such would mandate a battery of studies to determine whether the tests were accurate before letting someone sell them. The fact that a major chain was selling them also seemed to indicate to me that there was something real in Theranos. Probably a lot of people think the same way, and are disappointed.

No, the regulatory system is actually doing its job. The regulatory system is predicated on the government not being all knowing and all seeing and private actors in the industry having a bit of sense and doing their own due diligence. To structure it otherwise would basically make it impossible for any health tech startup to get off the ground -- the time required, and the capital requirements would be insane.

To summarize regulatory action:

Theranos sent in a marketing application to FDA for one of the use of Edison with one test, FDA said OK, this looks good based on the data you sent us (FDA can only see what you send them). FDA then placed Theranos on an audit list (common practice for any new company), stopped by after a few months, and found out that Theranos' own internal procedures for making sure that the data they generate about their product's performance is honest were, shall we say, poor. They also found Theranos marketing other components that they had not sought clearance to market from FDA. So FDA issued a 483 (deficiency notice) and the fallout from that we have yet to see. (I personally think there will be another shoe to drop here.)

Now, on the lab side, which is regulated by the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Systems, not FDA, the process is different. Basically CMS allows you to get a preliminary certificate after a cursory inspection and gives you 2 years within which to build a real testing process and get your shit together before they do the real audit. Theranos's Bay Area lab got the preliminary certificate and massively failed the real audit, and then massively failed to fix anything, which is what's landing Holmes in potentially very hot water (being banned from the diagnostic industry for two years in the US). The reason this is structured this way is that 1) to have enough data for a meaningful audit takes time and 2) the government expects anyone contracting with a brand new lab for the first two years to understand that it's a brand new lab and act accordingly (i.e. be skeptical, do your own audit, don't take NewCo's evidence at face value).

Most people in the industry understand this. Hell, most people at Walgreens understood this and were properly skeptical [1]. But the top execs at the time overrode the valid concerns of their QC people in order to chase the unicorn.

[1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/craving-growth-walgreens-dismiss...

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#104
post #16

Walgreens managers also grew increasingly frustrated in recent weeks with Theranos as they sought information about the extent of test reports it had corrected or voided. This seems to be a common thread in the stories I've read about Theranos, an almost pathological inability to provide basic information upon request. I can only guess that Holmes' notion of open and transparent communication is defined very differen…

This is hilarious https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Theranos-R... Advice to Management You are doing a good job. Stay in better touch with the employees. I think most people do feel appreciated but there are also some that are disgruntled and unhappy for other reasons. I see these people spreading negative energy. You should seek them and try and fix the problem. Is it common practice among upstart co…

> I've been using those as references for my job search, I know better now.

Eh, that just means you can't take the reviews at face value. Ignore the obviously disgruntled employees, treat fluff reviews as a small yellow flag, and look for the real dirt not so much in the angry reviews but in the disappointed ones.

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#105
post #74
post #16

Walgreens managers also grew increasingly frustrated in recent weeks with Theranos as they sought information about the extent of test reports it had corrected or voided. This seems to be a common thread in the stories I've read about Theranos, an almost pathological inability to provide basic information upon request. I can only guess that Holmes' notion of open and transparent communication is defined very differen…

All those Glassdoors reviews talking about long hours of work, working late, and for what? What did all those people work those long hours for? For complete failure. Theranos is in shambles, and these people signed up to work and work late at a company that was a fraud. Requiring employees to work late, or to strongly encourage that kind of behavior is a huge red flag for me when looking for work. People wasted hours…

Easy to say with hindsight. What if it would have worked out and their tech had revolutionised medical testing?

Failures are as important as successes, and nothing to be ashamed about from the employee perspective, just the covering up by management that's the problem.

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#106
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stefano Pessina. One of the most impressive European entrepreneurs. And he's CEO because the pre-existing management, who got them into this mess, were terrible .

Out of interest, what is it that you do in your life that you're informed about such unusual knowledge?

The Walgreens Boots Alliance group have been in the news recently because of accusations of charging for unnecessary drug reviews for customers by the Boots part.

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#107
post #16

Walgreens managers also grew increasingly frustrated in recent weeks with Theranos as they sought information about the extent of test reports it had corrected or voided. This seems to be a common thread in the stories I've read about Theranos, an almost pathological inability to provide basic information upon request. I can only guess that Holmes' notion of open and transparent communication is defined very differen…

This is hilarious https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Theranos-R... Advice to Management You are doing a good job. Stay in better touch with the employees. I think most people do feel appreciated but there are also some that are disgruntled and unhappy for other reasons. I see these people spreading negative energy. You should seek them and try and fix the problem. Is it common practice among upstart co…

Glassdoor reviews are still helpful - you just have to take the averages with a grain of salt, and filter any that seem to have been written by a PR flack.

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#108
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think mucking up blood tests that almost certainly lead to misdiagnoses should stir up some fury.

Stirring up some is not the same as optimizing for.

I really don't see how this is 'optimising' over stirring up fury. What are your metrics?

Re: Walgreen Terminates Partnership with Theranos

#110
post #12

"In recent weeks, Walgreens also was named as a co-defendant in one of three civil lawsuits filed by consumers against Theranos. The suits, which seek class-action status, allege that Theranos misled the public about the nature and accuracy of its blood-testing technology." Walgreens had an official partnership, including an investment of $50m, into Theranos. If there is actual consumer damage shown its Walgreens tha…

Who's writing the checks really depends on what's in the contract between Walgreens and Theranos. I haven't seen it, but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for Theranos to have agreed to indemnify Walgreens against claims over the accuracy of the tests. If so, Theranos would be on the hook even if Walgreens is getting sued as well, and the real question is how big the claims are and whether they will be enough to to…

In this case I believe that the contract was very tilted towards Theranos. The execs in charge were forced out previously. [0] I don't know any specifics on indemnification though, but if Theranos goes under, they can't indemnify much.

[0] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/business/a-once-avid-ally-...

Post reply on HN