What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.? • Hacker News Board

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#41

Post by bmh_ca » Sat, Jun 11, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #40

Joeri wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it legal to sell goods that are made with labor that would be illegal in the country of sale? If the US and Europe required that as part of the certification process for sale the labor also had to be certified, it would make their economies more competitive while simultaneously raising quality of life abroad. It seems like an obvious win, even for a corporate congress, so i don't understand why it hasn't happe…

Protectionist trade policy easily leads to wars. Banning goods produced with Chinese labor practices is tantamount to banning Chinese imports, which will have far reaching global implications beyond iPhones, and will increase military tensions greatly. Countries that don't trade find it much easier to start shooting at each other. On the other hand, free trade leads to freer exchange of information, ideas, and aligns…

The relevant rules for trade wars are "national treatment" and "most favoured nation". You will see those terms quoted extensively in any legal trade dispute, notably before the WTO.

Labour laws per se do not violate mfn or nt, so long as the labour laws apply domestically as well as to imports (since trade wars are essentially about import tariffs).

The primary reason we do not apply labour law to the producers of imports is because labour is poorly organized, under funded, and lacks political will and/or forethought.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#42

Post by Pinckney » Sat, Jun 11, 2016, 9:07 PM UTC

jean_claude wrote: post #7

It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quot…

It is simply a cost issue. Look at North Dakota during the oil boom, for example. It turns out paying $150k+ gets you plenty of applicants willing to work 120 hour weeks out of a dormitory.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#43

Post by dba7dba » Sat, Jun 11, 2016, 9:29 PM UTC

talsit wrote: post #30

dba7dba wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly concerned about waking up 8000 workers middle of the night, and making them work the following 12 hours, because of screw up by someone above them. And the fact that the American Apple executive admires it with the terms of flexibility and such.

IIRC, it wasn't a screw up. It was Jobs changing from a plastic to glass front panel at the last minute because his prototype scratched too easily.

That is a screw up.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#44

Post by kobayashi » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 5:51 AM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #40

Joeri wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it legal to sell goods that are made with labor that would be illegal in the country of sale? If the US and Europe required that as part of the certification process for sale the labor also had to be certified, it would make their economies more competitive while simultaneously raising quality of life abroad. It seems like an obvious win, even for a corporate congress, so i don't understand why it hasn't happe…

Protectionist trade policy easily leads to wars. Banning goods produced with Chinese labor practices is tantamount to banning Chinese imports, which will have far reaching global implications beyond iPhones, and will increase military tensions greatly. Countries that don't trade find it much easier to start shooting at each other. On the other hand, free trade leads to freer exchange of information, ideas, and aligns…

You had me until your last para. The sanctions against Iran were most certainly not akin to a declaration of war. If Iran had viewed it as such, it would have likely closed the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation, which it regularly vows to do if a warring scenario were to arise. So not even Iran viewed the sanctions as war-like.

The sanctions were are digression from international norms meant to coerce an equally disruptive violation of international laws - the covert production of highly enriched uranium and the illegal development of nuclear weapons.

The implementation of trade restrictions on Chinese goods would probably start a trade war, and another Cold War seems to me to be a plausible outcome. I agree with your conclusion on that point.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#45

Post by ddebernardy » Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

Longwelwind wrote: post #19

I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe). These jobs are becoming obsolete, and delocalizing to countries with lower labor costs is only a step before factories become fully automated (and some companies are reshoring because robots are becoming cheaper than outshore workers). The workers here that are left with no job and no mar…

To keep the design expertise in-house. Or as aptly put in this piece:

> He had subsequently watched its commercial aircraft business outsource itself to death. A key problem was that designers became so out of touch that they no longer understood basic manufacturing realities.

http://www.fingleton.net/boeing-goes-to-pieces/