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Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

nytimes.com

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Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#181

Post by tim333 »

sokoloff wrote: post #100
tim333 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's technically correct if you are a Marxist as Marx used the term that way. Otherwise the dictionary has "The action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work."

I agree with you (at least assume strongly that I do), but I couldn't find a dictionary with that as the first definition. Most of the first definitions were more along the lines of "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)", making GP technically correct.

That one was from http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/exploit...

I guess people use the term in different ways.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#182

Post by atom-morgan »

rrecuero wrote: post #111

Former H1-B Worker as well. I was sponsored by Zynga Inc and Moz. Finally got my green card recently. As other people have pointed out above, I believe the problem relies on who is sponsoring these candidates. The following list speaks by itself: 1 Infosys: 23,816 2 Tata Consultancy Services 14,096 3 Wipro 8,365 4 IBM 7,944 5 Deloitte Consulting 7,016 Google, Facebook, Amazon and even Tesla or Palantir should be in t…

> Setting a minimum wage to $100,000 would filter most of the sweat show applications out.

Along with new labor trying to enter the market.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#183

Post by djKianoosh »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #136
garrettgrimsley wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>More than 120,000 immigrants were sent back to their countries of origin That doesn't sound like a lot, given the scale of immigration. Out of how many? This sounds like a good way to flood the labor market.

From the linked page, out of 12 million. A 99% acceptance rate.

And this country is better off for it or am I also oversimplifying?

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#184

Post by gdilla »

nwhybrid wrote: post #77

As a former H1-B worker myself (please put down the pitch-forks :)), I can tell you that regular companies aren't hiring H1-Bs to replace you directly. Instead they contract swarms of us through companies like WiPro and other body shops. This, along with the inability to seek a more fitting job on your own regardless of skill level is the main problem I see. You're essentially shackled to these body shops. You can't…

Not all H1-B workers come via body shops. FB, Google, MSFT, Amazon all hire their own H1-Bs and pay wages no American could complain depresses anyone. This is how I came. It boggles the mind that body shops are allowed to exploit this system and abuse workers who come and do their best to drive wages down. The one solution is end the indentured servitude aspect of it. If H1Bs are free to move around and work where they please, the abuse would end overnight. Free markets work when the labor force also has, you know, freedom.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#185

Post by blisterpeanuts »

So, after thirteen years of my loyal and dedicated service, you're offering me $10,400 severance, six weeks notice (during which I must train my H1B half-price replacement), if and only if I sign a non-disparagement agreement? And otherwise, I'm out on my butt tomorrow?

No. You're going to give me one year's salary with benefits (after all, Lester Burnham got away with it in "American Beauty"). You're also going to pay me DOUBLE during the period that I am training the half price indentured servant who you imagine is going to replace me. Mind you, he'll never replace my previous loyalty and dedication; that's not something you can train into someone in six weeks... or ever. You have to earn loyalty, a lesson you'll discover over the next few months as you screw your employees.

Also, you will sign a mutual non-disparagement agreement; I say nothing bad about you, and you say nothing bad about me, and my lawyer says if you spread malicious and damaging gossip about me, it will cost me one million dollars in lost career potential, so that's what you will owe me if you do so -- plus punitive damages.

And if you don't give me what I want, I'm quitting as of 5pm today and will immediately write a book and blog about the stupidity of management here at Wrecked Lives Inc. In fact I've already reserved the domain names that will be appropriate for my upcoming tell-all. Lots of luck stopping me; I'll only tell the truth, and the First Amendment protects me. If you try to sue me, I'll sue you back, and the resulting publicity will make my book and my blog and my Youtube channel famous enough that I'll never need to work again. Your investors and commercial partners will also hear about it. So make my day.

I'm not saying most people would do this, or even if they did, that they would get away with it, but it's how a person in that situation ought to respond. Granted, we in the U.S. have at-will employment, granted it's a free market, and sometimes the smartest move is to simply move on and put this behind you. But we're also human beings with emotions, loyalties, and a sense of betrayal, and when a management team tries to pull the H1b-swap-and-gag on the employees, they have to recognize the price.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#186

Post by blisterpeanuts »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #144

I find it interesting the amount of sudden vitriol by some of the formerly "free market" supporters that thought that the terrible job market for non-STEM majors would never, ever hit the technology industry. Those that decry artistry and creative industry jobs as beneath them and their money, those that felt working class people were just too lazy to find "good" jobs, and generally feeling apathy if not schadenfreud…

I agree with you, actually; you can't have your cake and eat it, too. I believe employees in every field should be looking out for themselves. Signing a non-disparagement agreement is ridiculous. The company needs you to train the replacement, so make them pay through the nose. If they just say, get out, don't let the door hit you etc. -- fine. Move on. Don't dig your own grave then lie down in it.

People need to keep their resume up to date, keep testing the market, and be ready to move on if a superior opportunity arises, or if they become aware of an H1B replacement scheme in their group. That's the only real way to stop these practices; make the employers aware that people can and will walk if not treated right.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#187

Post by fractalb »

xenadu02 wrote: post #75
johndubchak wrote: post #20

At this point, with both Corporate abuses from American corporations and the H1-B holding companies along with the frequency with which we've seen the more expensive American work replaced with a much cheaper "guest" worker, I believe we need to ask ourselves, do we not have enough surplus American workers that are unemployed such that the H1-B program might not be necessary for a year or two until we've managed to g…

One of the best developers I've ever worked with is here on an H1B. He's better than 95% of all the US Software Engineers I've ever worked with. He runs an open source project in his spare time and gives talks to educate the community. He's the kind of person the visa is for and he is paid appropriately for a senior engineer (not a cheap import). The problem is the mostly Indian outsourcing companies. They ballot-stu…

>Infosys isn't hiring India's brightest engineers to import as contractors.

Not only Infosys, not a single Indian company mentioned here in this thread is hiring the best. Actually, the best here typically don't opt for the consulting/outsourcing companies.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#188

Post by hiou »

Idontreddit wrote: post #27
warcher wrote: post #19

Listen, there's no point claiming the H1 situation isn't a rampant clusterfuck. Actual skilled laborers lie in limbo while busloads of cheap, disposable foreign workers are brought over to get exploited and depress domestic wages. It's a full on disaster. If you have to have temporary worker visas, fine. But don't tie them to a company. If there's a legitimate need, and they're legitimately skilled, they'll find work…

Wait til TTIP and TPP becomes law. Times are good now, but once hilary gets elected and these "free" trade agreements gets signed, the monied masters will immediately raise interest rates and cause a recession which will give cover for businesses to lay off a large swathe of workers ( this time its going to be IT/developers/tech workers who are going to face the brunt of it ) and offshore a lot of these jobs. H1B is…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#189

Post by alphonsegaston »

nopzor wrote: post #167
brendangregg wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the IANAL caveat: that helps prevent one type of employee abuse, the "retaliation termination" intended to force an ex-employee out of the country rather than starting their new job. (Which is also the reason why a visa worker who is waiting on the H-1B "transfer" is advised by immigration lawyers not to tell their current employer that they are thinking of leaving, no matter how much they want to.) But, that's…

What other kind of abuse is there that applies specifically to people on h1b, and not to Americans?

As a for instance, employers will(illegally) demand that the H1B worker reimburse them for the legal and filing fees as a form of retribution for transferring. While certain greencard sponsorship related expenses can be recouped if the H1B is that far down the line, any visa related costs (attorney, filing fed) must be payed for by the sponsor.

https://www.dol.gov/wecanhelp/h1bworkers.htm

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#190

Post by 55acdda48ab5 »

gdilla wrote: post #184
nwhybrid wrote: post #77

As a former H1-B worker myself (please put down the pitch-forks :)), I can tell you that regular companies aren't hiring H1-Bs to replace you directly. Instead they contract swarms of us through companies like WiPro and other body shops. This, along with the inability to seek a more fitting job on your own regardless of skill level is the main problem I see. You're essentially shackled to these body shops. You can't…

Not all H1-B workers come via body shops. FB, Google, MSFT, Amazon all hire their own H1-Bs and pay wages no American could complain depresses anyone. This is how I came. It boggles the mind that body shops are allowed to exploit this system and abuse workers who come and do their best to drive wages down. The one solution is end the indentured servitude aspect of it. If H1Bs are free to move around and work where th…

That's a horrible idea. The whole point of the visa is to service a specific job that was impossible to fill. It makes perfect sense that an H1-b holder should be forced to stay at only one job and not be allowed to compete on the wider job market.

The solution to the abuse of the visa is to get rid of all the legal and bureaucratic tests and hoops and auction off the slots instead. The firm with the winning bid gets to import a foreigner.

If this is really about filling important roles where it's impossible to hire or train an American, the winning bids should be in the hundreds of thousands. If it's really just a system of wage suppression, well the bids will be low, for all to see.

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