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Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

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171–180 of 210 posts

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#171

This causes some pretty strong mixed feelings for me. On the one hand, foreign workers are already disadvantaged compared with domestic workers and H1-B caps are absurdly low. I keep failing to see why we are all supposed to open world markets to the flow of every sort of capital and goods except labor, or why someone deserves a job for being born American, rather than Indian (Note that I feel the same way when Ameri…

These Carly Fiorina-style arguments that no one has a special right to a job are ignoring a lot of context. In a world with even handed regulation and no borders, that could make sense. But that is not the world we live in. The current situation is not that trade is completely deregulated and labor is tied up in red tape. What is really happening is that there is a complex surface area of varying degrees of regulatio…

(Not talking about H1B)

Immigrants arriving would benefit the economy (as long as they aren't too poor and take lots of welfare), at least ideally speaking.

> Why wouldn't it be fair for Americans to have an advantage in the American market place?

This is pointless, just like banning trade with X country to allow more jobs to be in America. It looks good on the surface, but really Americans would be losing out on the cheaper prices of X country's goods and services.

The key idea is that trades are mutually beneficial. When an employer hires an immigrant employee, they both gain.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#172

As a former H1-B worker myself (please put down the pitch-forks :)), I can tell you that regular companies aren't hiring H1-Bs to replace you directly. Instead they contract swarms of us through companies like WiPro and other body shops. This, along with the inability to seek a more fitting job on your own regardless of skill level is the main problem I see. You're essentially shackled to these body shops. You can't…

Nobody is talking about L1B or L1A visas yet. L1B allows these bodyshops to overcome the limits set forth by the H1B visas. While H1Bs are indentured servants and tied to their employers it is still possible for them to switch jobs once they're in the US. However, L1Bs is worse. There are no limits to the number of L1B visas that are issued. They cannot switch jobs. They do not have to be paid fairly according to market wages. They are slaves.

Also - I'm on H1B. But the difference is I graduated from a top school in the US and I am employed not to replace an American worker but I have certain skills that are not easily found in the tech industry. Unfortunately, I'm lumped into the same category as the body shopping H1Bs and so I've not yet received my greencard despite paying taxes for the past 7 years. And FYI I've consistently hit AMT for the past so many years and I own property and investments in this country. So, this kind of BS not only hurts American workers. It hurts the genuine immigrants as well. It also hurts the economy overall because although I wanted to start my own startup I have not been able to due to my visa status and restrictions. I would've generated economic opportunity for several individuals. I have also had to turn down CTO positions because usually tiny startups do not have the ability to sponsor H1Bs and they just don't want to deal with the paperwork. I am also working with a founder right now who wants to bring me on but is in a legal dilemma due to my status.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that many of those workers WANT green cards, as getting one while you are an H1 is arguably the most sensible path forward, and chances are that a company that sponsors your green card will make you pay a penalty if you change jobs while the process is going + 1 year. The end result is that You have an H1, but you not only have to restart the green card process (or at least set it back, depending on th…

You can apply for a new green card via the new employer (or any potential employer too). Once you get through to the I-140 stage of your second GC again - provided that the new job is one similar to your previous one - you can use your same place-in-line in the GC as before. The green card application can get stuck in the bureaucratic backlog for any number of reasons - for years. These delays messes up with your pea…

A large number of well qualified Indian and Chinese immigrants are in the same situation. The Chinese situation is a bit better (China @ 2010 vs India @ 2004). However, none of us are taking a stand on it and making sufficient noise about it. There are thousands of tax paying legal immigrants stuck in limbo. The tax money + fees that are paid are in billions and yet apparently somehow we have no voice.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#175
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define "fair" in fair market wage? It eventually has to come down to, "I'm an American, so I'm entitled to get paid more than everybody else on the planet for doing a given job." I find that attitude pretty disgusting, but that's just me. The same people who complain endlessly about H1Bs, outsourcing, and cheap foreign labor will then cheerfully drive to Wal-Mart and buy a new DVD player for $12. It will n…

> It eventually has to come down to, "I'm an American, so I'm entitled to get paid more than everybody else on the planet for doing a given job." Fuck no, it's about getting your "membership benefits" from a communal system that you've contributed to. Americans get paid more by Americans because those Americans pay more to Americans, and invest in the American economy and interact with American laws. Who you ought to…

Wait, do y'all think H1Bs don't pay taxes?

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#176
post #175
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It eventually has to come down to, "I'm an American, so I'm entitled to get paid more than everybody else on the planet for doing a given job." Fuck no, it's about getting your "membership benefits" from a communal system that you've contributed to. Americans get paid more by Americans because those Americans pay more to Americans, and invest in the American economy and interact with American laws. Who you ought to…

Wait, do y'all think H1Bs don't pay taxes?

There's not a whole lot of thinking going on in this thread, in general.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is the one missing from this debate. I don't have a problem with immigration -- my grandparents were all immigrants. I have a problem with this three-tier system of greencards, guest visas and systematic import of undocumented workers. These leech companies are farming exploited quasi-immigrant labor while screwing up the labor market for everyone else. You should be able to come to this country like…

>>You should be able to come to this country like my ancestors did -- pass a physical and get a green card... Americans of all backgrounds shouldn't have their salaries kneecapped by thousands of workers with no rights. If anyone could come into the US by simply passing a physical exam, salaries would be impacted much more drastically, this time by the sheer increase in the labor supply.

In the 20th century the total population of employable humans doubled in roughly a decade. That is, when women were allowed to enter the workforce in a real capacity.

We adjusted and the economy grew.

Concerns like yours were the same concerns raised by Americans regarding Asians a little over a century ago, leading to our closed borders. These fears were unfounded.

America is still succeeding based on the momentum of our former liberal open border policy and in another century or so I'm sure we'll regret having tightened immigration as much as we have.

It's crazy that if you're born here by random chance you get incredible perks in life, but if you want to come here and earn those perks you're pretty much screwed unless you've already proven success in your current country.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to add that full rights for guest workers could possibly solve the problem outright. Let the worker walk out and find a better job the day they land in the airport or cross the border or change status to worker. Make any "bond" illegal and declare the employer may not seek restitution for the worker walking out in search of greener pastures.

While this is definitely helpful, it solves a different problem. You're assuming that H1Bs are only awarded to highly skilled workers. Therefore, if they are being "underpaid" they could get other jobs that would pay them more. However, this is not currently true. Currently the problem is that certain companies are exploiting the H1B program to get workers who are "high skilled" but only meeting the minimum requireme…

I like this idea. However, I must ask what safeguards do we have from preventing this class from turning into the eb5 or indeed should we try to prevent h1b from turning into eb5?

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#179
As a Indian and worked in Indian body shops (but who never traveled aboard). My views on Indian-body shop immigrants :

In 2005, when I completed university masters degree. Our class has around 60 students, I'm pretty sure may be 5 or 6 of (1%) them are talented and good in computers. Most of us took IT job. We had chances to immigrate to other as early as 2007 through Indian body shops like Wipro, Infy, Tata, CTS etc.

In 2016, now most of them (60%) of them working in aboard. May be 40% in USA and 20% EU/ROW. How did almost 59% of these not-so talented friends landed in other countries? Did they gained sound knowledge in those 48 months or later. I really _really_ doubt that. Its because we are low-cost workers and got close to Indian IT management. Typical Indian IT managers are ass*. They want boot-lickers not skilled developers. So its easy for unskilled people to land in other countries in the name of skilled-person. I know few guys who worked in non-IT companies (later created fake IT experiences) joined these body shops and now living in US.

I assume almost 80-90% IT Indians in US are helping American companies simply because he/she is low-cost worker. Its not like US companies cant find local talent to fill these roles, but they want low-cost solution.

If you got laid-off due to low-cost workers, please remember, its the US company & IT Body-shop bosses & stock-holders financially benefited a lot from these lay-offs not necessarily the worker who replaced you or the poor-outsourced IT slaves.

one simple solution : Please tighten the visa-interview process, make it more like real IT company interview (ask about data-structures and algorithms etc). This will ensure immigration rates from body-shops drop from 60%(from my numbers above) to 5% max.

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My personal experience with Indian & US/foreign freelancers greatly differ. Even though US/foreign freelancers are costly (1USD:66 INR), I find them worthy. They go-out and put extra-effort to finish the task. With Indian freelancers, they just want to finish the task quickly and get the paid. I find it amusing that US companies hire us for of lack-of talents there :)

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