Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder • Hacker News Board

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#111

Post by rrecuero » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:32 AM UTC

Former H1-B Worker as well. I was sponsored by Zynga Inc and Moz. Finally got my green card recently. As other people have pointed out above, I believe the problem relies on who is sponsoring these candidates. The following list speaks by itself:

1 Infosys: 23,816 2 Tata Consultancy Services 14,096 3 Wipro 8,365 4 IBM 7,944 5 Deloitte Consulting 7,016

Google, Facebook, Amazon and even Tesla or Palantir should be in the top spots. Setting a minimum wage to $100,000 would filter most of the sweat show applications out.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#112

Post by solipsism » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #38

_audakel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disposable foreign workers are brought over to get exploited "exploited" is a matter of perspective. To an onlooker who has lived their whole life in a first world country, seeing people work for $x - (less-significantlyLess) [where $x is what is "typical" for the job] can be seen as bad/wrong/sad etc... I have spent time working in very poor parts of Mexico and Manila. Crime is rampant, I feared for my life at tim…

I am an immigrant living in the united states. I still can't believe my luck that I get to live in this paradise on earth called USA. I also feel guilty that got this incredible opportunity while much of my extended family and friends rot in third world hell holes waiting for their lives to be over quickly so they can be put out of their misery. One of my uncle works as day laborer in dubai. He works 14 hr days of ha…

Never thought of karma that way (as a westerner with no particular exposure to it). I always thought of it as, "Do good now and you'll be paid for it later."

"You are where you are because you deserve it, due to what happened in past lives" is a much sadder message. Good for societal stability perhaps, but horrible for ideas like individualism and self determination.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#113

Post by brendangregg » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #89

pm90 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception. It is a very easy process to change jobs on an H1B. The difficult part is the Green Card process, which gets reset (IANAL) and currently getting a green card takes upto 10 years, if you're from India. The problem essentially is that many of these workers either don't know that they can switch jobs, don't have the skills relevant to get another job or, in many cases, have a sort of loya…

>>This is a common misconception. It is a very easy process to change jobs on an H1B. No it isn't. Even though the process is informally called an "H-1B transfer", changing employers while on H1B actually requires filing a brand new H-1B petition with USCIS. The only difference is that this petition is not subject to the annual cap. Everything else - the crazy requirements and loops you and the sponsoring employer ha…

Yes, but it can be worse than that. There was a different article about it recently, where the employer threatened to falsely report their visa employees as illegal if they complained. Which means the employees can wind up leaving the country and possibly never returning. For an employee who has worked in that country for years and calls it home, this is akin to being threatened with exile.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#114

Post by the_ancient » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

I have long been an open borders supporter, anyone that wants to come to the US (or any other nation) and make a life for themselves should be free to do so.

I am also 100% opposed to even the existence of the H1B visa program, this program is a modernized version of Indentured servitude that allows companies to take advantage of those employees by conditioning their immigration to their employment. These people are often coming from circumstances they do not want to return to, poverty, oppression, persecution, etc. So the threat of being fired and deported is a coercive force that employers use to exploit these workers.

I am fine with immigration, I am even fine if immigrant are willing to work for lower wages, provided that agreement is free from the threat of deportation...

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#115

Post by solipsism » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

Idontreddit wrote: post #27

warcher wrote: post #19

Listen, there's no point claiming the H1 situation isn't a rampant clusterfuck. Actual skilled laborers lie in limbo while busloads of cheap, disposable foreign workers are brought over to get exploited and depress domestic wages. It's a full on disaster. If you have to have temporary worker visas, fine. But don't tie them to a company. If there's a legitimate need, and they're legitimately skilled, they'll find work…

Wait til TTIP and TPP becomes law. Times are good now, but once hilary gets elected and these "free" trade agreements gets signed, the monied masters will immediately raise interest rates and cause a recession which will give cover for businesses to lay off a large swathe of workers ( this time its going to be IT/developers/tech workers who are going to face the brunt of it ) and offshore a lot of these jobs. H1B is…

We are going to replace one corrupt chicago politician with another

Emanuel for president 2020, let's make it a hat trick.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#116

Post by 35bge57dtjku » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:41 AM UTC

I've never even had the option to sign a no disparagement clause for a settlement like that. I've had to support my family with what I already had whether I liked it or not. So what they did is shitty, but I have a hard time feeling bad for the 1% who complain that they have the option of getting more money by signing away their rights if they so choose.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#117

Post by nopzor » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:47 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #89

pm90 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception. It is a very easy process to change jobs on an H1B. The difficult part is the Green Card process, which gets reset (IANAL) and currently getting a green card takes upto 10 years, if you're from India. The problem essentially is that many of these workers either don't know that they can switch jobs, don't have the skills relevant to get another job or, in many cases, have a sort of loya…

>>This is a common misconception. It is a very easy process to change jobs on an H1B. No it isn't. Even though the process is informally called an "H-1B transfer", changing employers while on H1B actually requires filing a brand new H-1B petition with USCIS. The only difference is that this petition is not subject to the annual cap. Everything else - the crazy requirements and loops you and the sponsoring employer ha…

I've done h1b transfers before, as an employer.

I wouldn't say it's "very easy", but it's not super hard either.

I don't disagree with what you're saying in general, but shouldn't there be some cost incurred by the new company?

Remember, like it or not, the h1b program is technically designed to only come into play when a company can't find suitable local talent to fill a position.

In our case it was a few thousand dollars of legal fees and gov "expedite" fees

If we were doing a lot of them our legal fees could go way down, and we'd get good at doing them.

The cap is a big deal, and the reason most h1bs get rejected.

Like you said, if an h1b worker is already here, the cap doesn't apply -- I think that's a good thing.

It seems to be a common misconception that h1bs are bound to their employer.

I simply don't think that's true.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#118

Post by hibikir » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:50 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #83

dclowd9901 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a common reaction to raise pitchforks at H1-B's? I mostly feel sorry for workers on visa. They don't have the flexibility I do to change jobs if they're not happy. That would be the absolute worst for me, as someone who is always looking for a better gig.

This is a common misconception. It is a very easy process to change jobs on an H1B. The difficult part is the Green Card process, which gets reset (IANAL) and currently getting a green card takes upto 10 years, if you're from India. The problem essentially is that many of these workers either don't know that they can switch jobs, don't have the skills relevant to get another job or, in many cases, have a sort of loya…

The problem is that many of those workers WANT green cards, as getting one while you are an H1 is arguably the most sensible path forward, and chances are that a company that sponsors your green card will make you pay a penalty if you change jobs while the process is going + 1 year. The end result is that You have an H1, but you not only have to restart the green card process (or at least set it back, depending on the moment you are applying), but you might end up paying 10K+ for the privilege... on top of the other company sponsoring the H1 AND the Green Card.

So, in practice, the mobility provisions are only non-onerous in a small percentage of the cases: If you don't want to stay in the US, or you want to, but no Green Card paperwork has been filed.

There's also companies that play games with your green card: A friend of mine changed departments (the company he is on goes through constant reorgs, and the company decided that the job description had been changed enough that they had to file a new labor certification. Guess what? If you have a 10 year wait, and every time your job description changes a bit, you decide your green card must restart, you'll never, ever get it.

And you can't ask for the green card by yourself: The employer does, so you are at the mercy of their lawyers too.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#119

Post by brendangregg » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:52 AM UTC

nopzor wrote: post #117

enraged_camel wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>This is a common misconception. It is a very easy process to change jobs on an H1B. No it isn't. Even though the process is informally called an "H-1B transfer", changing employers while on H1B actually requires filing a brand new H-1B petition with USCIS. The only difference is that this petition is not subject to the annual cap. Everything else - the crazy requirements and loops you and the sponsoring employer ha…

I've done h1b transfers before, as an employer. I wouldn't say it's "very easy", but it's not super hard either. I don't disagree with what you're saying in general, but shouldn't there be some cost incurred by the new company? Remember, like it or not, the h1b program is technically designed to only come into play when a company can't find suitable local talent to fill a position. In our case it was a few thousand d…

It's not supposed to be true, but take the company who is making threats to have their employees deported if they complain or leave.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#120

Post by nopzor » Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 1:55 AM UTC

yourapostasy wrote: post #95

sangnoir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also feel guilty that got this incredible opportunity while much of my extended family and friends rot in third world hell holes waiting for their lives to be over quickly so they can be put out of their misery Goodness - I know it's probably hyperbole, but what kind of fucked-up country do you come from?

India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are common labor pools that many Mid East nations draw upon for physical laborers. It isn't just Dubai, though they are among the most egregious; you'll see these arrangements in nations like Saudi Arabia as well, even though it is not nearly as well-publicized.

It's not just middle eastern countries.

Many developed countries in Asia (eg Singapore) use foreign labor for jobs that "no Singaporean would do". This includes jobs like construction.

Unlike the U.S., these foreign workers are truly 2nd class citizens. Often passports are confiscated, and the idea that they'd ever start a life or family in their host country is completely off the table.

It is official policy that they can be paid less than local workers for the same job, and have far fewer legal protections.

I don't think it's black and white though. Many of these foreign workers would be worse off in their home country.

It still rubs me the wrong way. For all its flaws, I still like the U.S. System better.