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In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

nytimes.com

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Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#31

Post by dleslie »

CydeWeys wrote: post #24
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #9

Every time one of these articles appears it seems like the comments always mention prop 13, rent control, NIMBY and environmental regulations, and a difficult permitting process as the underlying reasons for the high rents in sf. It seems pretty obvious that if the market had its way the whole area would look like Tokyo. Why can't we move beyond this and say "OK keep your 100 year old row houses and vineyards", lets…

What's wrong with making San Francisco more like Tokyo? Do you know how much economic productivity is lost because zoning regulations prevent further densification that is otherwise desired?

... And the inefficiency of delivering services to a large, low-density population; and the societal burdens of municipalities designed around automobiles as the primary mode of transportation. Air quality, sedentary lifestyles, loss of wildlands, and so on.

If street construction and maintenance were paid for solely by usage...

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#32

Post by johnwatson11218 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #24
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #9

Every time one of these articles appears it seems like the comments always mention prop 13, rent control, NIMBY and environmental regulations, and a difficult permitting process as the underlying reasons for the high rents in sf. It seems pretty obvious that if the market had its way the whole area would look like Tokyo. Why can't we move beyond this and say "OK keep your 100 year old row houses and vineyards", lets…

What's wrong with making San Francisco more like Tokyo? Do you know how much economic productivity is lost because zoning regulations prevent further densification that is otherwise desired?

I'm not against making it look like Tokyo, I agree that it would be more productive if it were more dense. I don't live there so it isn't my problem. I do think that it limits the amount of economic growth and could hurt the national economy. I think it could also make it easier for other countries to leap frog us in terms of software but that is very speculative.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#33

Post by DrScump »

raldi wrote: post #4
bluejekyll wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco did this in a way, rent control exists, but only for buildings constructed before 1970? (Not sure of the date) This effectively meant it was "temporary" because any new buildings wouldn't be covered, which will eventually mean that as buildings are replaced or built new there will be less and less rent control available in the City. Probably not the temporary you mean...

1979, and that rule comes from a state law called Costa-Hawkins which prohibits any California municipality from requiring rent control on any new unit constructed after then. The intention was to spur construction by offering a carrot to anyone who built a new (and presumably bigger) apartment building. The unforeseen consequence is that now city planning commissions in places like SF simply don't issue demolition p…

There have, however, been a number of major fires in older apartment buildings in the past couple of years; at least two resulted in the whole building being condemned. I'm sure it's just coincidence.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#34

Post by fraserharris »

1138 wrote: post #23
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #9

Every time one of these articles appears it seems like the comments always mention prop 13, rent control, NIMBY and environmental regulations, and a difficult permitting process as the underlying reasons for the high rents in sf. It seems pretty obvious that if the market had its way the whole area would look like Tokyo. Why can't we move beyond this and say "OK keep your 100 year old row houses and vineyards", lets…

I work remotely in SF. I live here because I like not owning a car, walking and biking most places, and non-tech things to do. I'm just lucky I can afford it. The solution is to build more good US cities that aren't car centric. I'm not aware of any. Build a from scratch city with a target of at least 250k residents on the California coast and I'll move. I don't know how many people think similarly, but there's still…

The best way i've seen this framed is: in all of the US, there are only about 2,000 blocks of housing with sufficient density & walkable services to support car free living. This is some of the most sought after and expensive real estate in the country, but zoning codes won't allow more of it to be built.

Example zoning restrictions: mandatory building setbacks, mandatory parking requirements, mandatory building separations, maximum units per building, 1 or 2 story maximum heights, high minimum lot sizes.

Note: a significant % of those 2,000 blocks are in San Francisco.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#35

Post by arbuge »

1138 wrote: post #23
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #9

Every time one of these articles appears it seems like the comments always mention prop 13, rent control, NIMBY and environmental regulations, and a difficult permitting process as the underlying reasons for the high rents in sf. It seems pretty obvious that if the market had its way the whole area would look like Tokyo. Why can't we move beyond this and say "OK keep your 100 year old row houses and vineyards", lets…

I work remotely in SF. I live here because I like not owning a car, walking and biking most places, and non-tech things to do. I'm just lucky I can afford it. The solution is to build more good US cities that aren't car centric. I'm not aware of any. Build a from scratch city with a target of at least 250k residents on the California coast and I'll move. I don't know how many people think similarly, but there's still…

>> The solution is to build more good US cities that aren't car centric. I'm not aware of any.

NYC is definitely not car-centric or even car-friendly. Indeed, the non-car-centric zone there is considerably larger than SF's. Other cities like Washington DC and Boston are not too different so long as you don't venture too far from downtown.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#36

Post by pmcollins »

I grew up in California, went to Berkeley, and worked in there for years, but I couldn't stand the backwardness of California's homeowner cabal anymore and moved out of state. In my new state, there's no rent control, no NIMBYism, and homes and neighborhoods are beautiful and affordable. Sure, there's more room to grow here, fewer people, and a smaller economy, so it's not a completely fair comparison, but take a moment and look on a satellite map at how much land in the bay area is completely undeveloped, most of it on hillsides. I'll move back if California ever embraces progress and growth (not going to happen in my lifetime).

Regarding remote work, I've been working remotely here at satellite offices of bay area companies for 7 years at 3 different companies and it has sucked. You're treated like a second class citizen by employees at the mother ship, and the conference call technology (webex) is abominable -- half duplex, compression artifacts, and good luck understanding what an engineer with a heavy asian accent is saying while he's 12 feet from the microphone across all of the garbage technology that delivers his voice to your ear. The only way it would work is if everyone would wear a headset, and whether it's conscious or not, employees at the mother ship would much rather keep you, the remote office guy, in the twilight and not jeopardize their jobs. Never again for me if I can help it.

And FWIW, if you are in favor of price controls (minimum wage, rent control) the Commanding Heights documentary is an excellent retort (starting at minute 50): https://youtu.be/w9ms2WOZi74?t=50m6s

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#37

Post by kevinpet »

I didn't pay close to a million dollars for a house in San Mateo so to live next to people who need rent control. The peninsula is not Tuscany or London. Any significant local character was ripped up fifty years ago with the last of the orchards.

There's one city on the peninsula with rent control, and it's East Palo Alto.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#38

Post by ericd »

johnwatson11218 wrote: post #20
johan_larson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be nice? If SF is unreasonable, we'll just take our ball and play elsewhere. :) But how to make it happen? There is an awful lot of resistance to hiring remote staff. I checked the latest "Who's Hiring?" post here at HN and of the top 10 postings, only 2 were open to hiring remotely.

yea I agree that remote is a big part of the solution. Despite all the talk about how easy it is to "work from anywhere" remote still has a lot of pain points. Where I work we can do it one day a week but it sucks when people are dialing in to a meeting. Remote Desktop and ssh aren't really that great. I'm thinking we need fiber to the curb and VR fueled telepresence that is able to convey nuance and emotion when int…

Yeah, it basically requires a lot of structuring the way people work together to make it so that remote workers are first class citizens in meetings etc. Otherwise, remote workers miss way too much of the context that comes from informal chatter at the office and end up being isolated from the main flow of things.

We can barely even teleconference people into formal meetings in a way that works consistently and isn't a huge pain, I think we're a very long way from remote work being a solution for a large percentage of workers.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#39

Post by msutherl »

1138 wrote: post #23
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #9

Every time one of these articles appears it seems like the comments always mention prop 13, rent control, NIMBY and environmental regulations, and a difficult permitting process as the underlying reasons for the high rents in sf. It seems pretty obvious that if the market had its way the whole area would look like Tokyo. Why can't we move beyond this and say "OK keep your 100 year old row houses and vineyards", lets…

I work remotely in SF. I live here because I like not owning a car, walking and biking most places, and non-tech things to do. I'm just lucky I can afford it. The solution is to build more good US cities that aren't car centric. I'm not aware of any. Build a from scratch city with a target of at least 250k residents on the California coast and I'll move. I don't know how many people think similarly, but there's still…

US cities that aren't car centric: Portland, Seattle, New York, Boston. Nearby: Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto. Afar: London, Paris, Berlin.

Arguably San Francisco is the most car-centric of the bunch with its comparatively non-functional transportation system.

Re: In Silicon Valley Suburbs, Calls to Limit the Soaring Rents

#40

Post by hueving »

arbuge wrote: post #35
1138 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work remotely in SF. I live here because I like not owning a car, walking and biking most places, and non-tech things to do. I'm just lucky I can afford it. The solution is to build more good US cities that aren't car centric. I'm not aware of any. Build a from scratch city with a target of at least 250k residents on the California coast and I'll move. I don't know how many people think similarly, but there's still…

>> The solution is to build more good US cities that aren't car centric. I'm not aware of any. NYC is definitely not car-centric or even car-friendly. Indeed, the non-car-centric zone there is considerably larger than SF's. Other cities like Washington DC and Boston are not too different so long as you don't venture too far from downtown.

The weather and people there are crap if you're used to the west coast. Winters suck and the rudeness of NYC people is insufferable in the long run for me.
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