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Workman Keyboard layout

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Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#41

Post by nwah1 »

codemonkeymike wrote: post #35

I have tried both Workman and Colemak. I first tried Workman but ran into the issue of that on my phone and on other peoples laptops the layout was unavailable. So I moved to Colemak and haven't looked back, and have now been using it for about 3 months. Both are nice layouts, I dont see any major benefit from switching between each except for layout support on operating systems.

Seconded. Colemak is great. All the frequently used keys are on the home row, and yet it keeps the most important QWERTY keyboard shortcuts.

Also, colemak has wider support than workman. Software support and native keyboards are easier to come by. Software support exists out of the box with Linux and Android.

Native keyboards are even better, because this ensures that it works, even in the BIOS, login screen, or when using virtualized OSs, games, and other such scenarios.

I was able to buy a fantastic native colemak keyboard from the company WASD. I've tried various types of keyboards, but only WASD had everything I was looking for, and had outstanding build quality.

But switching layouts is a painful decision to make, and should only be made if you've weighed the pros and cons.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#42

Post by pklausler »

olakease wrote: post #32
yadakhov wrote: post #3

Changing keyboard layout isn't an option. I tried a few times and gave up.

I did it on holidays. Switched to dvorak for programmers 6 years ago. Never again pain in my wrist. I'm a vim user, that was a little difficult. Total time to be confortable with the change about 2 weeks. After that it became my main layout.

It was a long time ago, but I also remember a 2 week switching time. I was pretty good by the end of the first week, but after taking a weekend off, the worst day was the following Monday -- I couldn't remember any layout and couldn't type at all without reference to a diagram!

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#43

Post by pcl »

zepto wrote: post #12
dizzystar wrote: post #7

>> QWERTY was supposedly designed for typewriters to solve a very specific problem–to keep the types from jamming against each other. The most frequently used keys were placed apart from each other to prevent them from jamming. Isn't this a huge myth and if so, can we all agree to stop with it? I find it funny that people keep saying this while ER and ERT, very common letter combinations in English, are part of QWERT…

No - this is not a myth. QWERTY was designed to prevent jams. The myth is that it was intended to slow the typist down.

In fact, reducing jams results in faster typing when using a device susceptible to jamming. Now that our keyboards don't jam, we can move on from that local maximum.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#44

Post by codemonkeymike »

nwah1 wrote: post #41
codemonkeymike wrote: post #35

I have tried both Workman and Colemak. I first tried Workman but ran into the issue of that on my phone and on other peoples laptops the layout was unavailable. So I moved to Colemak and haven't looked back, and have now been using it for about 3 months. Both are nice layouts, I dont see any major benefit from switching between each except for layout support on operating systems.

Seconded. Colemak is great. All the frequently used keys are on the home row, and yet it keeps the most important QWERTY keyboard shortcuts. Also, colemak has wider support than workman. Software support and native keyboards are easier to come by. Software support exists out of the box with Linux and Android. Native keyboards are even better, because this ensures that it works, even in the BIOS, login screen, or when…

There are for sure a handful of cons, like not being able to use someone elses computer without some painful layout switching time. But as someone who works on a keyboard all day it really saves my wrists. If I was ever able to not type I would be out of a job.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#45

Post by phire »

protomyth wrote: post #37
speps wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UPDATE: Workman-P is now available. Workman-P is Workman for Programmers. In Workman-P, the top-row numbers and symbols have been switched as well as the brace and brackets. It is great for programmers as well as system administrators.

I'm a bit skeptical of that change for keyboards I don't have a numeric keypad. I think I type more numbers while programming than symbols.

Yeah, I'm not willing to give up easy access to numbers for symbols.

Maybe an an extra row above the numbers would work (Get rid of the current F1-F12 keys).

I'd also like to have ABCDEF and x keys next to the number pad, to make typing hexadecimal numbers easier. Maybe comma and space keys would be useful over there too.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#46

Post by travisb »

JelteF wrote: post #8
jessedhillon wrote: post #5

I like seeing someone willing to rethink base assumptions, and to follow that thinking all the way to a brand new layout. However, I'm surprised to see that, even in a layout intended for programming, parentheses and brackets are placed as inconveniently as they ever are. Programming might only be 25-40% of my typing, but it's the most painful/annoying usage of the keyboard that I have -- far out of proportion with t…

Just letting you know, learning two layouts is not doable. The muscle memory of one will always be more powerful. I cannot type querty anymore after I have switched to dvorak programmer [1]. [1]: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

If you find you have trouble remembering two layouts then I would suggest using a specialized ergonomic keyboard with a non-QWERTY layout for most of your typing and leave all the normal slab keyboards and laptops as QWERTY. For much the same reasons you don't get confused between a piano and a computer keyboard, using a keyboard which is physically significantly different helps separate the two layouts in your muscle memory.

For example, I use Colemak on a Kinesis Advantage and QWERTY on all flat keyboards. Since the physicality of they keyboards are so different I don't have any confusion while typing, though sometimes I'll mix up single character presses. That is, if I type a sentence I never have troubles, but if I want to hit just the 't' key I may mistype the first time. Other than that I can seamlessly switch between the two and my speeds are comparable across both layouts.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#47

Post by mmgutz »

Wouldn't an optimized layout depend on what you do for work? A C programmer will likely type '*', '->' much more than a JavaScript programmer. Do you move those shifted characters too? How about numbers? I type `0` and `1` a lot more than other numbers.

Maybe one way to generate an optimal layout for work is to run the algorithm through the top projects on Github for a specific language (assuming your work is coding).

I have tried alternative keyboard layouts with little success. I'm a Vim user. I can't even tell you what half the hotkeys are! When someone asks me what the hotkeys are for something, I have to mimic typing the keyboard in air then mentally map my finger movements to keyboard characters. It's a double whammy for me to move to another layout.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#48

Post by pklausler »

pklausler wrote: post #24

20 years ago or so, I ran an evolutionary algorithm that permuted keys in a layout, evaluated them against a corpus of English texts from Project Gutenberg and the Linux kernel sources, and a home-grown cost function that penalized finger motion and especially double-hits by the same finger. The best layouts all had the property that the vowels were on the home row under the left hand, and the common consonants were…

Hey, I found my best evolved layout:

  K,UYP WLMFC 
  OAEID RNTHS 
  Q.';Z XVGBJ
Some things to note: 1) E and T just have to be under the middle fingers on the home row in any comfortable layout. 2) T and H need to be adjacent. 3) Vowels on one side, consonants on the other side of the home row. Keep the home row's Scrabble score to a minimum.

Honestly, I think that's all that really matters. Dvorak isn't perfect for me (I/U need to be switched, and maybe L/-) but those are minor bugs.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#49

Post by sdfin »

codemonkeymike wrote: post #35

I have tried both Workman and Colemak. I first tried Workman but ran into the issue of that on my phone and on other peoples laptops the layout was unavailable. So I moved to Colemak and haven't looked back, and have now been using it for about 3 months. Both are nice layouts, I dont see any major benefit from switching between each except for layout support on operating systems.

I tried Dvorak and Colemak. I couldn't get used to Dovrak's emphasis on hand alternation, so about 4 years ago I tried Colemak and I continue using it today, it's good enough and feels more comfortable than Qwerty. And unlike what the article says, I find it super easy to type 'he' or 'the' on colemak. It's good that almost every Linux distibution includes it. On Windows I use the portable autohotkey version.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#50

Post by htns »

pklausler wrote: post #39
htns wrote: post #19

I too found Colemak lacking. IMO it's because the most relevant keyboard layout metrics are 1) how well words break down into same hand "finger rolls", which help typing accuracy and to lesser extend speed 2) how often the same finger has to type multiple characters in succession 3) how often the same hand has to reach for the more awkward middle keys (y and b in qwerty) while also doing something with the middle fin…

whoa, you map Caps Lock to backspace , not control?

Yes, since capslock+a is awkward to press. Altgr + any key can be hit without strain, at least if you have a keyboard that doesn't place altgr too far to the right.
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