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On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

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11–20 of 46 posts

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#11
I wonder who Seneca thought was carefully arranging the universe so that everyone would had enough time if only they had used it properly. They didn't have monotheism back then, did they? Or maybe Seneca was just naturally the sort of person who rationalized things easily, and imagined a fairer universe without anyone in particular making it fair.

Anyway, props to the people Seneca was disagreeing with, who managed to be more honest with themselves about the unfairness of the universe and how easily it could have been improved than Seneca and many other modern rationalizers.

http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/simplified

http://lesswrong.com/lw/uk/beyond_the_reach_of_god/

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#12

Seneca was a Stoic. But being a Stoic has little to do with the standard cliche of suppressing your emotions. It is a philosophy that emphasises a rational response to nature, your own and that of the universe. "Follow nature" is a common Stoic saying - unconditionally accept that which is the case and do not disturb yourself with emotional upheavals about that which one can do nothing. The French philosopher Pierre…

> We are part of of a Cosmic Whole

Bet you Seneca never said that. It's a highly evolved modern form of nonsense.

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#13
post #11

I wonder who Seneca thought was carefully arranging the universe so that everyone would had enough time if only they had used it properly. They didn't have monotheism back then, did they? Or maybe Seneca was just naturally the sort of person who rationalized things easily, and imagined a fairer universe without anyone in particular making it fair. Anyway, props to the people Seneca was disagreeing with, who managed t…

"They didn't have monotheism back then, did they?"

AD 50?

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#14

Seneca was a Stoic. But being a Stoic has little to do with the standard cliche of suppressing your emotions. It is a philosophy that emphasises a rational response to nature, your own and that of the universe. "Follow nature" is a common Stoic saying - unconditionally accept that which is the case and do not disturb yourself with emotional upheavals about that which one can do nothing. The French philosopher Pierre…

- There is nothing evil in nature. The only evil is moral evil in humans. Realising this makes a person serene and free, the only thing that counts is the purity of your own conscience.

What about natural disasters and diseases? I would call earthquakes and smallpox evil. They've killed more people than people have. If you want to play games with definition and only count things as evil if they intend to do harm, well then I'd still say they're bad and I would prefer we fixed them.

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#15
post #12

Seneca was a Stoic. But being a Stoic has little to do with the standard cliche of suppressing your emotions. It is a philosophy that emphasises a rational response to nature, your own and that of the universe. "Follow nature" is a common Stoic saying - unconditionally accept that which is the case and do not disturb yourself with emotional upheavals about that which one can do nothing. The French philosopher Pierre…

> We are part of of a Cosmic Whole Bet you Seneca never said that. It's a highly evolved modern form of nonsense.

So it's time to actually read some Seneca instead of betting on your prejudice. I think I've read most of his work, and while I can't remember anything specially about this, as it was a well-known part of the stoic's cosmovision, from bits of information here and there, you can actually see this clearly.

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#16

The words, even fine words, of men set to rationalize the span of years they knew they had are no longer relevant in this day and age. The difference between Seneca and us is that we can toil to turn money into additional years of life. Scientific research and medicine. Of course, given that we are on the cusp of this new era of longevity science, rejuvenation of the old, and greatly enhanced life spans, we look arou…

> The difference between Seneca and us is that we can toil to turn money into additional years of life

No, we can not; we can't even undo the damage caused by the diseases of affluence, and this hyped and religious belief in salvation by the science would make the most primitive polytheist laugh.

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#17

The words, even fine words, of men set to rationalize the span of years they knew they had are no longer relevant in this day and age. The difference between Seneca and us is that we can toil to turn money into additional years of life. Scientific research and medicine. Of course, given that we are on the cusp of this new era of longevity science, rejuvenation of the old, and greatly enhanced life spans, we look arou…

We might be being a little premature on being on the cusp of a new era. All this technology and science takes time. For example, the war on cancer started almost 40 years ago. We are from a cure. We have so much more to learn before we can really extend life or "cure" death.

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#18

The words, even fine words, of men set to rationalize the span of years they knew they had are no longer relevant in this day and age. The difference between Seneca and us is that we can toil to turn money into additional years of life. Scientific research and medicine. Of course, given that we are on the cusp of this new era of longevity science, rejuvenation of the old, and greatly enhanced life spans, we look arou…

I respectfully disagree with you. One must be wary of the modern cult of technology as just another way to bypass the human condition. Even if you live to be 2000, you cannot bypass suffering and you cannot stop change. Our attention span is between 5 and 15 seconds and you will have to share that present, that moment with all other human beings, just the same as if you only had six months to live. The point is not h…

[deleted]

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#19
post #11

I wonder who Seneca thought was carefully arranging the universe so that everyone would had enough time if only they had used it properly. They didn't have monotheism back then, did they? Or maybe Seneca was just naturally the sort of person who rationalized things easily, and imagined a fairer universe without anyone in particular making it fair. Anyway, props to the people Seneca was disagreeing with, who managed t…

It is perhaps easy to overlook the fact that the modern standard of "fair" is far subtler than the ancient standard of "fair". Social mobility, human rights, effective medicine, myriad technological comforts all make our lives unbelievably more "fair" than contemporaries of Seneca would have ever likely imagined.

And yet you suppose that Seneca was unaware about the "unfairness" of the universe. Ah, but you misinterpret the essay. The point is not to convince you that your life, or all human life, is unequivocally "fair" - as certified by some mystical fairy God dancing in the Cosmos - but to convince you that the only way to maximize the "fairness" of your own life is by the action of the individual, by the application of correct concepts of human morality: by proper ethics.

As pertains to the subject of this essay, this means to act as if your life is of sufficient measure for you to fulfill yourself only if you do not waste it.

Moreover, to respond to your general dismissal of the essay, Seneca is writing on a particular instance of "unfairness" - the shortness of life, not all "unfairness" (e.g. being born with a genetic disorder). Of course, the Stoics were keenly aware of this type of "unfairness" as a defining characteristic of the human condition. Indeed, much of their philosophy is devoted to it. But a discussion of this would take us much too far afield and I'm afraid you would not be interested ...

Re: On the Shortness of Life - Seneca (50 AD)

#20
post #12

Seneca was a Stoic. But being a Stoic has little to do with the standard cliche of suppressing your emotions. It is a philosophy that emphasises a rational response to nature, your own and that of the universe. "Follow nature" is a common Stoic saying - unconditionally accept that which is the case and do not disturb yourself with emotional upheavals about that which one can do nothing. The French philosopher Pierre…

> We are part of of a Cosmic Whole Bet you Seneca never said that. It's a highly evolved modern form of nonsense.

No, stoics tended to be pantheists.
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