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What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

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Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#21

Post by bdcravens »

daveguy wrote: post #18
MajorLOL wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got me. I admit, I clicked wondering what aspect of the construction was done off-shore. Then I realized it wasn't.

Yup. Not done off-shore. Just using illegal immigrants. That shouldn't surprise anyone. As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign. I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected.

> As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign.

That's his qualification to be sure. However, he's running on a platform where he wouldn't afford others the opportunity to do the same.

> I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected.

They always do.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#22

Post by wonkaWonka »

tzs wrote: post #10
wonkaWonka wrote: post #5

According to King at the Ames Lab, an iPhone has about 75 elements in it, two-thirds of the periodic table. I'm really going to need some percentages of mass here. The thing that lands in the box. Not the catalysts, and substances required for processes used during manufacture. If I'm not holding it in my hands, right now, it doesn't make the list. 01. H (1) Hydrogen 02. He (2) Helium 03. Li (3) Lithium 04. B (5) Bor…

> If I'm not holding it in my hands, right now, it doesn't make the list. I don't see why things that are used during manufacture but do not end up in your hand should be excluded. The question being asked in that section of the article is whether or not the product could be produced entirely with materials and labor from the US, and so everything involved in making it should count.

The tone of the article suggests that an iPhone is made of these elements, moreso than it does that they are made with these elements.

  has about 75 elements in it
It's like saying the natural gas and the oven belong on the printed wrapper in the list of ingredients for that cookie you just ate.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#23

Post by flamedoge »

dba7dba wrote: post #11
jean_claude wrote: post #7

It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quot…

> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.” Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp. I am GLAD there's no such American plant.

I am not glad there isn't such American plant yet. I foresee a day where plants are engineered to be flexible and cost efficient enough to mass produce at blink of an eye with a new design. We still have a very long way to go to exploit our own ingenuity, and this is only talking about automation.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#24

Post by petecox »

dba7dba wrote: post #11
jean_claude wrote: post #7

It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quot…

> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.” Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp. I am GLAD there's no such American plant.

12 hour shifts sounds very 19th Century! Workers marched in the streets against such things... I thought PRC was founded on the communist ideals of the proletariat?

12 * 2 = 8 * 3.

Introduce an 8 hour day and you can hire 50% more workers!

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#25

Post by taneq »

petecox wrote: post #24
dba7dba wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.” Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp. I am GLAD there's no such American plant.

12 hour shifts sounds very 19th Century! Workers marched in the streets against such things... I thought PRC was founded on the communist ideals of the proletariat? 12 * 2 = 8 * 3. Introduce an 8 hour day and you can hire 50% more workers!

Only if your unemployment rate is over 33%.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#26

Post by Bombthecat »

dba7dba wrote: post #11
jean_claude wrote: post #7

It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quot…

> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.” Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp. I am GLAD there's no such American plant.

Wait a few years :)

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#27

Post by yompers888 »

wonkaWonka wrote: post #22
tzs wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm not holding it in my hands, right now, it doesn't make the list. I don't see why things that are used during manufacture but do not end up in your hand should be excluded. The question being asked in that section of the article is whether or not the product could be produced entirely with materials and labor from the US, and so everything involved in making it should count.

The tone of the article suggests that an iPhone is made of these elements, moreso than it does that they are made with these elements. has about 75 elements in it It's like saying the natural gas and the oven belong on the printed wrapper in the list of ingredients for that cookie you just ate.

Given the context, though, parent's comment is reasonable. The isolationist drive that would bring iphone manufacturing and all the associated mining back to the US would go hand-in-hand with a very isolationist economy, in which we'd presumably not be able to get anything from other countries.

The thought exercise of in-sourcing everything that ever contributed to anything that eventually goes into a phone helps to point out how the idea of disentangling ourselves from the global market is absurd.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#28

Post by Joeri »

jean_claude wrote: post #7

It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quot…

Why is it legal to sell goods that are made with labor that would be illegal in the country of sale?

If the US and Europe required that as part of the certification process for sale the labor also had to be certified, it would make their economies more competitive while simultaneously raising quality of life abroad. It seems like an obvious win, even for a corporate congress, so i don't understand why it hasn't happened.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#29

Post by Alphasite_ »

Longwelwind wrote: post #19

I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe). These jobs are becoming obsolete, and delocalizing to countries with lower labor costs is only a step before factories become fully automated (and some companies are reshoring because robots are becoming cheaper than outshore workers). The workers here that are left with no job and no mar…

Because you want to be the one holding the factories when the end game hits.

Re: What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

#30

Post by talsit »

dba7dba wrote: post #16
orionblastar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. Using cross training on the assembly line basically teach everyone all the positions on the assembly line can cut down on costs and improve quality. Use robots for the hard stuff, use people for the sensitive stuff that needs human hands.

I'm mostly concerned about waking up 8000 workers middle of the night, and making them work the following 12 hours, because of screw up by someone above them. And the fact that the American Apple executive admires it with the terms of flexibility and such.

IIRC, it wasn't a screw up. It was Jobs changing from a plastic to glass front panel at the last minute because his prototype scratched too easily.
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