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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#251

Post by schoen »

true_religion wrote: post #237
schoen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it could be emblematic of a power struggle between the State Department (which issues visas) and the Department of Homeland Security (which decides whether people are "admissible" on the basis of their inspection, which includes examining someone's visa status). DHS apparently really likes to emphasize that they, not State, ultimately decide whether someone will get into the country or not, regardles…

It's fairly easy to get a tourist visa to almost any country. Just get proof of intent to exit/entry, and documentation that you can support yourself for the extent of the trip, and you can go anywhere no matter what your nationality (almost). Thus applying for a tourist visa then overstaying is often the easiest way to illegally immigrate---especially in a country like the USA, where there are plenty of non-standard…

> Just get proof of intent to exit/entry, and documentation that you can support yourself for the extent of the trip, and you can go anywhere no matter what your nationality (almost).

Some of the rich-country governments, when granting tourist visas to people from poor countries, also look for proof that the visitor has a strong reason to return to their country, which can include things like owning property there, having a family there, or having a hard-to-transfer professional license like a law license. People from poor countries who don't have these things often can't get tourist visas at all, even if they can prove they can support themselves for the duration of their visits, because the consular officers often assume intent to overstay the visa.

For example, I've heard this about Brazilians trying to get tourist visas for the U.S.: the main question is not so much "can you pay for this trip?" as "why will you come back to Brazil afterward?".

Edit: And I don't think the consular agents in these situations are satisfied by someone's having a round-trip ticket (that "proof of intent to exit").

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#252

Post by refurb »

outworlder wrote: post #203
jbob2000 wrote: post #16

This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…

Agreed, but be careful. * Do not lie to immigration officials, ever! * I can't stress this enough. "Attending a conference" would have been true. The fact that she was a speaker as well is additional information that she could disclose if asked . "A short vacation" could work, but beware. Depending on the country, this could get a flight back very quickly. Taking the US as an example: there's a "tourism" visa, and th…

All good points.

If you say "here for a quick vacation", then they search your belongings and find an agenda for a conference or business papers, you can be sure you'll be denied entry.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#253

Post by ascorbic »

School-Cotton wrote: post #195
icebraining wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except inside the Schengen Area. Every time I travel I realize how lucky I am to have this freedom (and wary of political movements trying to kill it).

It doesn't make sense to compare going from France to Germany with going from France to the US. A better comparison would be France to Germany vs. California to Arizona. Both European states and US states are sovereign political entities with their own laws and territory, but with an agreement for freedom of movement. (the US constitution in one case; the Schengen agreement in the other).

Whatever the current level of integration within the EU, it is far from being anything like a federal state, so isn't a valid comparison. The closest equivalent you'd get is US to Canada.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#254

Post by fapjacks »

Bromskloss wrote: post #146
2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

Now that we're telling stories: I was flying home from England to Sweden and going through the inspection before departure. The guy checking me could tell that I was upset about it all, having to remove my belt and maybe even my shoes. When we were done, he had the greatest line: "Thank you for your cooperation, from Mr. Obama."

You know, I flew from Barcelona to Stockholm and I have to say, not having anything to do with US/UK borders was a phenomenally pleasant experience.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#255

Post by gsnedders »

true_religion wrote: post #232
panglott wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She found out later she had a right to legal counsel and a hotel room. She wasn't able to sleep for 30+ hours.

Curiously, I think the list of countries that deny you legal counsel are lot shorter than the list of countries that do not. It's usually safe to assume that you can have legal representation, unless you are being accused of something that is a diplomatic, political, or military dispute.

Even in immigration cases where you are yet to be admitted to the country? I thought that was a very mixed bag.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#256

Post by arethuza »

samastur wrote: post #138
arethuza wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea - but I've traveled to a lot of places and in terms of friendliness of reception at the border the only place that was worse involved communists and large crew-serviced machine guns (NB crossing into Yugoslavia in the late 1980s by train from Italy). Edit: For the avoidance of doubt, I really like the US as a place to visit both for business and vacation, but the experience at the border can leave a lo…

I kind of doubt that your memory is correct. In late 80s you would see police and toll officers on Yugoslavian border crossings generally armed with pistols. Army did "protect" border, but I can't think of a place where they would be anywhere close to normal border crossing and they certainly did not have crew serviced machine guns there. Both sides used to have bunkers so maybe you meant those? Otherwise getting acr…

Nope - I can remember it quite vividly.

Train from Trieste to Ljubljana - stops in the middle of nowhere. After an hour or so troops turn up and surround the train, I remember watching them assemble the heavy machine gun and point it in the general direction of our carriage (mind you, the soldiers involved looked completely bored, so I didn't feel that threatened).

A chap who looked like a border guard came through with people who looked like officers (and who were in a supremely bad mood). Much shouting, waiving of pistols and people looking genuinely scared. After another couple of hours train continues on its way with everyone very puzzled.

No idea what it was about and my traveling companions hadn't encountered anything like that there before and subsequent border crossings in the next few days (e.g. Yugoslavia -> Hungary) were completely uneventful.

I can date it pretty well as it was about a week before the Piper Alpha disaster in the North Sea - I'm from the North East of Scotland and was worried that people I knew might have been involved. So it was about the 1st July 1988.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#257

Post by germanier »

panglott wrote: post #246
germanier wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That difference (getting paid) is spelt out quite clearly on the UK Home Office's website and is certainly not a secret. Failure to check upon requirements does not excuse her even if personally thinking that a policy change is needed.

The difference (as described in her post) was that the conference was sponsored by a German organization, not a UK-based one, and that was not detailed on the Web site.

Even if the conference would have been sponsored by a British organization this would have resulted in the same outcome no matter what she described in her post.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#258

Post by IanDrake »

rdtsc wrote: post #128
2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

As a rule answers have to be as general as possible. The more specific information you give them voluntarily, the more they can find something to latch on and make your life miserable. Leave it up to them to ask more details. I wasn't a speaker at my last conference, but I could have been. But my conversation at the border was something like: "Why are you visiting Canada?" / "To go to a conference" / "Where is the co…

"Why are you visiting Canada?"

"On vacation."

Done.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#259

Post by [deleted] »

idlewords wrote: post #213
gsnedders wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: as a reminder, the UK has long been concerned about people smuggling arms and the like for the sake of terrorism: the majority of arms used by the IRA originated in the US for decades before 9/11 (after which the US supply largely dried up, as did US funding of such terrorist groups).

That does not sound correct to me. The IRA got most of its weapons from Libya [ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/inside/wea... ] from the 1980's on, and the Good Friday agreement was signed (presumably suspending arms smuggling) years before 9/11.

[deleted]

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#260

Post by gsnedders »

Grue3 wrote: post #79
jbob2000 wrote: post #16

This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…

When I visited UK for the first time I did say I was giving a talk at a conference (which was true). I didn't know you're not supposed to say that. Granted that was many years ago, but they let me through. I think the important part is that she visited for a second time. They already had her in the database and flagged her for some reason.

Giving a talk at a conference is fine. Getting paid to give a talk at a conference is for many (most?) categories of conference employment and hence not fine.
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