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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#231

Post by [deleted] »

icebraining wrote: post #54
jbob2000 wrote: post #16

This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…

Isn't it illegal to work for money while claiming you're just doing tourism? Seems like it could get her denied from future visits.

[deleted]

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#232

Post by true_religion »

panglott wrote: post #62
DanBC wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what, what rights did she not have?

She found out later she had a right to legal counsel and a hotel room. She wasn't able to sleep for 30+ hours.

Curiously, I think the list of countries that deny you legal counsel are lot shorter than the list of countries that do not.

It's usually safe to assume that you can have legal representation, unless you are being accused of something that is a diplomatic, political, or military dispute.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#233

Post by true_religion »

golergka wrote: post #221
Manishearth wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, except the questions asked weren't relevant to that (i don't remember what they were; this was years ago -- I remember my mom saying that they were confrontational and more focused on figuring out if the old people were terrorists)

Confrontational questions are a usual tactic in such interrogations; the goal is not to get the answers, but to get the subject into an agitated state, so he would have a harder time lying about the real questions.

This is true. It's an interrogation. If they simply stated we'll ask you these 20 questions, or even that all questions will be 100% relevant to your situation, then you could simply practice until you could lie with a straight-face to any possible question.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#234

Post by true_religion »

golergka wrote: post #221
Manishearth wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, except the questions asked weren't relevant to that (i don't remember what they were; this was years ago -- I remember my mom saying that they were confrontational and more focused on figuring out if the old people were terrorists)

Confrontational questions are a usual tactic in such interrogations; the goal is not to get the answers, but to get the subject into an agitated state, so he would have a harder time lying about the real questions.

This is true. It's an interrogation. If they simply stated we'll ask you these 20 questions, or even that all questions will be 100% relevant to your situation, then you could simply practice until you could lie with a straight-face to any possible question.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#235

Post by monkeynotes »

ali-maki wrote: post #131

Keep in mind, this was a white American detained for some arbitrary visa restrictions which is a rarity. Middle Eastern individuals are very frequently put in the 'corral of shame' for reasons unbeknownst to them. I can't recall how many times I've been randomly searched, or have had officers keep an eye on me. I've also occasionally put through interrogations by irate border patrol over the mundane minutiae of my tr…

I think it's perfectly reasonable to discriminate, I mean it's just sensible to pay a little more attention to a 23 year old male who is coming to London from Syria for the first time than an 80 year old white Romford grandmother returning home from visiting her grandson in Luxembourg.

Yes, dumb-ass, power hungry, bored border guards probably abuse this policy, but the alternative is to treat everyone the same and everyone gets quizzed, or not. It's a bind, what is the solution?

The author was right when she observed that we have done this to ourselves.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#236

Post by petercooper »

rtpg wrote: post #52
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #41

Stepping slightly back from this particular horrible experience, I don't understand _why_ this particular set of institutional rules are in place. Was there a thought that foreign speakers who were subsidized by foreign governments were inciting rebellion? Are there tax issues? Was this some big money laundering loophole or something? Is there a concern that people were using this as figleaf to immigrate illegally?

generally speaking, countries don't want you to be in them and be paid by a foreign company. Think about it, if you're in the UK but being "paid" by a German company, are you really paying the right kind of taxes? What's to stop every major corp from having the Cayman Islands branch hire you. Usually people working for foreign corps end up actually being contractors (and paying self-employment taxes or whatnot).

generally speaking, countries don't want you to be in them and be paid by a foreign company.

Curiously, the US prefers this for temporary visitors. If you are being paid by a company outside the US to speak at a US conference, it's fine, but you are not allowed to be paid by a "US source". I guess the theory is being paid by a non-US source means you're "on business" rather than "working in the US".

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#237

Post by true_religion »

schoen wrote: post #192
mynameisvlad wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got chewed out because I said I'm "activating" a H1-B, when I should have said that I was being inspected for approval of an H1-B (or some shit like that).

That sounds like it could be emblematic of a power struggle between the State Department (which issues visas) and the Department of Homeland Security (which decides whether people are "admissible" on the basis of their inspection, which includes examining someone's visa status). DHS apparently really likes to emphasize that they, not State, ultimately decide whether someone will get into the country or not, regardles…

It's fairly easy to get a tourist visa to almost any country. Just get proof of intent to exit/entry, and documentation that you can support yourself for the extent of the trip, and you can go anywhere no matter what your nationality (almost).

Thus applying for a tourist visa then overstaying is often the easiest way to illegally immigrate---especially in a country like the USA, where there are plenty of non-standard jobs available to do where no one is asking for ID or work status.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#238

Post by School-Cotton »

icebraining wrote: post #223
School-Cotton wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't make sense to compare going from France to Germany with going from France to the US. A better comparison would be France to Germany vs. California to Arizona. Both European states and US states are sovereign political entities with their own laws and territory, but with an agreement for freedom of movement. (the US constitution in one case; the Schengen agreement in the other).

The affirmation that US states are sovereign is not unanimously agreed upon :) That said, even if that's technically true, I think it blurs the history, which is part of what makes it feel special. An US citizen takes that border crossing for granted since birth, but as an European, I'm aware that my grandmother already as an adult had to cross it clandestinely, at the risk of her own life, and even my parents still…

"Sovereign" might have been the wrong choice of words, then. It's not a binary thing -- sovereignty is a leaky abstraction that groups together a very wide range of different statuses. US states are not 100% sovereign, but what I was getting at was that they are, in many but not all respects, more similar to sovereign nations than to administrative subdivisions of a country. They have totally independent legal systems, budgets, administration, and so on. Even in countries in Europe that are also federations, the level of sovereignty of the sub-entities is usually less (in Germany, for example, criminal law is handled centrally, not delegated to Lands).

One notable exception is the sub-entities of the UK (England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland), which have a high degree of autonomy.

As for the historical bit, we have simply had more time than you :). The current push for European integration only started after the war - 70 years ago. It's been going on in America for over 200 years, and our last major internal war was 150 years ago.

I'm not disputing your sentiment, though. I think anything that improves freedom of movement for people is great, and I'm happy that Europe has been moving steadily in that direction since the war.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#239

Post by codecamper »

7952 wrote: post #209
jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, like other countries, the UK's Border Force[1] clearly has an above-average share of incompetents and bullies. If you give such people any power whatsoever, they will abuse it. Sadly, that's what happened here. The real problem is that there is no accountability in these organisations. Even if a complaint by Rachel triggered an investigation, the culture in organisations like this is to protect their o…

I wonddr if the whole "visa free travel" thing is the real problem. Better to make it easy for everyone to apply online before they actually board a flight. Ask sufficiently nuanced questions so that people know exactly what kind of visa they actually need.

That would require software and software is hard. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-visa-system-100-computer-experts...

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2490412/database-admini...

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#240

Post by opendomain »

My biggest problem with this is that Speakers at conferences are NOT paid. This has to be the biggest lie ever told.

I know some 'conferences' are small and for the good of the development community. Then the entrance fee should be free.

I have been to conferences that paid nothing or 'honorarium' amounts to speakers, but they charge THOUSANDS of dollars to enter. PLUS expensive Hotels.

This is what everyone should say when asked to speak at a conference: NO SPEC WORK. SHUT UP- PAY ME.

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