A deportation at the UK border • Hacker News Board

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#181

Post by Manishearth » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

TheAnimus wrote: post #125

rdtsc wrote: post #122

> “Never tell them you’re coming for anything but tourism.” > When I was finally able to talk to my husband again, one of the very first things he told me was, “Don’t blame yourself for being truthful.” Very true. Your response goes into a "bin" (or a checkmark on a form). There are only so many bins there. One for terrorists, one for migrant workers, one for tourists. Self employed web developers, who are paid by a…

It's also about having very correct details in this case. If she had bothered to apply for the correct VISA there wouldn't have been an issue, but they clearly feel they are a special little snowflake because animation API is more important than a standardised work VISA system. I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with your assertion. Honesty and preparation IS the best policy. Imagine if I'd lied when I was detained in…

What do you mean? She had visa on arrival, and the website indicated she was within the parameters for it. That's really all the work she needed to do.

Sure, its a travesty that some passports have this privilege over others, but you can't blame her for underpreperation.

Her point about the animation api is relevant, because visa criteria involve whether or not someone local can provide the same workshop.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#182

Post by shimon » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #178

This is a great article on how /not/ to talk to immigration officials, anywhere. I don't defend any heavy-handed attitude of the officers. It's just useful to understand the purpose behind the process. > the young immigrations officer at LHR was very inquisitive about this old friend I was going to meet while I was in London for a conference: Who was he? Where did he live? What was our relationship? My awkward answer…

And yet, when you place someone in a position where they are tired and nervous, this is the sort of behavior you get. Whether or not they are innocent.

It's almost better to take as a cautionary tale about acknowledging your limits. Maybe asking for some rest and legal counsel could have helped. Maybe that would have angered them more.

And maybe her responses were very poorly considered and antagonistic. That, combined with the accidental violation of visa rules, seems like grounds for a brief delay and a fine. It doesn't seem like a good reason for a detention of many hours and deportation.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#183

Post by ck2 » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

Several generations from now people are going to tell their kids stories of how there used to be people that traveled between countries.

I don't see how technology can prevent this outcome, if anything it will make it worse.

Governments are just too paranoid and criminals/terrorist too eager to make them punish everyone for their crimes.

Vaguely related, did you know Japan has taken in a total of THREE immigrants this year? Japan imprisons applicants and makes life living hell for anyone that wants to migrate there because they are paranoid about outsiders. Tourism is fine as long as you leave.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#184

Post by ibejoeb » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

kennell wrote: post #137

As someone whos job was to oranize visas for various countries around the world for some time, here is my advice. If you are doing this kind of semi-business/semi-pleasure/speak-at-aconference/whatever trips, just get a tourist visa. Everything else is a giant mess.

(That'd be a really nice service to have, btw)

There's a lot of leaping around in the article:

>These days, when it feels there’s some shooting or bombing happening every other time you turn on the radio, there’s increased pressure for Border Patrols and TSAs to make us feel safe

This is not why she was returned. You can't just show up and work in most of the world. There's an unfortunate amount of wrangling to do, but it's all in the economic interest, not security. This would have been exactly the same pre-Brexit, pre-9/11, and so on.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#185

Post by mynameisvlad » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

nickporter wrote: post #169

scott_s wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an amazing difference a single word makes. I have travelled to the UK to attend and speak at an academic conference, and I probably said so to border agents. That single word probably makes a difference. I never even considered that I would be turned away.

When going back to the United States from Canada, I was sent to secondary screening because I said I had a TN Visa, when the correct thing to say was TN Status.

I got chewed out because I said I'm "activating" a H1-B, when I should have said that I was being inspected for approval of an H1-B (or some shit like that).

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#186

Post by 77pt77 » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

durzagott wrote: post #91

jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, like other countries, the UK's Border Force[1] clearly has an above-average share of incompetents and bullies. If you give such people any power whatsoever, they will abuse it. Sadly, that's what happened here. The real problem is that there is no accountability in these organisations. Even if a complaint by Rachel triggered an investigation, the culture in organisations like this is to protect their o…

Theresa May is my local MP. I keep trying to vote her out, but the idiots around me keep voting her in! So when we sleep walk into a mass surveillance state I can honestly look at the people who live around me and say 'this is your damn fault'.

They'll feel proud about it.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#187

Post by hodgesrm » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #144

I remember when I came to the US 3 years ago. I had a return ticket. I had sufficient funds to pay for a hotel, food, travel around the city. I had medical insurance. I was self employed. The problem I had? When I told the border patrol inspector who was asking me questions, that my stay was 3 months vacation. His reaction was like... NO WAY, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. This was in New Jersey. I was brought to the back,…

It's good form wherever possible to prefix conversations American immigration authorities with "I'm an American citizen and..." Sounds as if your companion instinctively knew the drill.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#188

Post by CptMouse » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #178

This is a great article on how /not/ to talk to immigration officials, anywhere. I don't defend any heavy-handed attitude of the officers. It's just useful to understand the purpose behind the process. > the young immigrations officer at LHR was very inquisitive about this old friend I was going to meet while I was in London for a conference: Who was he? Where did he live? What was our relationship? My awkward answer…

Horseshit. As a Romanian my parents witnessed the absolute scumness of people taking pleasure in hurting others (we killed thousands of our own in communist prisons). If you don't realise that what she witnessed is in the same registry of a disgusting human trait, and not something to be defended, you're not only living in Fantasy Land, but also spreading dangerous bullshit.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#189

Post by eitally » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

xyience wrote: post #89

mpeg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about lying, it's about giving only the information requested. "I'm attending a conference" would have been ok too, or even "I'm travelling for business" - I've used both in the US without the border agent asking any more questions. When you volunteer a lot of information you come across as nervous, and sketchy

As a US citizen, I go to my company's Canadian office every so often. I have no issues saying it's for business -- the first time ever I was a noob and was asked to park and go inside for more questioning but once I clarified that my company is US HQ'd, that I was just there for meetings (not actual work?), and that I'm not a manager everything was swell. I later learned actual managers at my company never reveal the…

The only place I've (white American male) ever had an issue is entering Canada, too, for the reason you specify. My company had just purchased a Canadian company, I was a manager, and I was explicitly going there to get to know the new team and start making decisions about whom to keep/reassign/let go. The immigration officer was not excited about letting me in.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#190

Post by School-Cotton » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 6:08 PM UTC

tachion wrote: post #20

Not that I dont feel sorry for the author of the story, since this is terrible experience, no matter who experiences it, but as an American, a citizen of a country that has one of most restrictive and humiliating border procedures around the civilized world (try landing with valid visa on JFK as non American human being...) complaining at this sounds - well, odd.

I have heard a lot of anecdotal stories that UK border guards are pretty fucking terrible.

Also, although I've never been detained or turned away, I can say that every time I've been to the UK, the border guards and security agents have uniformly been very, very rude.

Why do you assume the US is worse than the UK? Do you have a source?