England has probably the toughest border to cross of any country I have been to.
I just went to Europe recently (for leisure), landed twice at LHR from US and Germany with no issues whatsoever. The border folks were very friendly.
A deportation at the UK border
81–90 of 329 posts
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because getting caught lying to these authorities would make for a much better outcome.
Deception to an immigration officer in an attempt to obtain leave to enter (regardless of whether it was successful or not) can result in a one-year ban from (re-)entry to the UK. Deception on a visa application can result in a ten-year ban from (re-)entry to the UK.
If the travel is in the other direction, entering the USA, the penalty for "misrepresentation" is a lifetime bar.
Yes, there are potentially waivers available, but lying to border agents -- and getting caught -- can make your future travel plans range from very difficult to impossible.
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#83There is no VISA you can get to receive an honorarium for speaking in the UK Potential international speakers should also be warned this is also true of the US - except for certain types of academic institution (INA 212(q)). The UK also allows it via https://www.gov.uk/permitted-paid-engagement-visa but again, only for arts or academia. A commercial conference doesn't count, annoyingly (or even a community conference…
Coming to speak on web animation, perhaps the magic word to use would have been 'arts'. Clearly analogous situations such as performers coming in to play music on a stage, or actors to perform one-man shows, are supported by existing visas. Seems this is a case where the legislation needs adjusting.
Looks like that's https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-temporary-worker-creative-and-spor...
Occasionally someone high-profile has a visa denied: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/mar/28/musicnews.music
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#84I'm sorry she had a terrible experience. But the visa requirements are pretty clear, and she needed a standard visa.
Here's the "do you need a visa" website. https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa
Walk through it. She's from the USA. She's travelling for work, academic or business. She's planning to stay less than six months.
Here's the result:https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/work/six_months_or_le...
You don't need a visa for some business and academic visits, but you must get a visa to work in the UK.
You may be able to come to the UK without a visa if you:
are invited as an expert in your profession
come for other business or academic activities If you’re invited as an expert
You can stay in the UK for up to 1 month without a visa, but you can only be paid to do certain things, eg:
give guest lectures at a higher education institution
provide advocacy in legal proceedings
take part in arts, entertainment or sporting activities
Check the full list of what you can be paid to do - it’s the same as what you can do on a Permitted Paid Engagement visa.
If you come for other business or academic activities
You can stay in the UK for up to 6 months without a visa, but you can only do certain academic or business-related activities, eg:
go to a conference, meeting or training
take part in a specific sports-related event
perform as an artist, entertainer or musician
do academic research or accompany students on a study abroad programme
Check the full list of what you can do - it’s the same as what you can do on a Standard Visitor visa.
Here's the standard visa: https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#85Just a small remark: If you're visiting the USA your fingerprints get taken every time (at least thats my experience). So that part of the story (an american complaining that their fingerprints got taken in the UK) is kind of skewed perspective.
Photo and 10 prints every time I enter the US, and probably stored for eternity. My favourite is a receipt I have for "Alien Flight Student", which required even more screening and fingerprinting. I'm still waiting for them to bring out the flying saucers...
When I arrived at SFO a few days ago, it was only 8 prints (they didn't want my thumbs).
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#86Stepping slightly back from this particular horrible experience, I don't understand _why_ this particular set of institutional rules are in place. Was there a thought that foreign speakers who were subsidized by foreign governments were inciting rebellion? Are there tax issues? Was this some big money laundering loophole or something? Is there a concern that people were using this as figleaf to immigrate illegally?
generally speaking, countries don't want you to be in them and be paid by a foreign company. Think about it, if you're in the UK but being "paid" by a German company, are you really paying the right kind of taxes? What's to stop every major corp from having the Cayman Islands branch hire you. Usually people working for foreign corps end up actually being contractors (and paying self-employment taxes or whatnot).
Being paid by a company in any country is equally not OK. It seems the Germany-part is just a red herring/the officer being a dick (it seems they could have easily rejected her straight at the desk - you're here to work, you don't have the visa, done, have a nice flight back, next please).
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#87There is no VISA you can get to receive an honorarium for speaking in the UK Potential international speakers should also be warned this is also true of the US - except for certain types of academic institution (INA 212(q)). The UK also allows it via https://www.gov.uk/permitted-paid-engagement-visa but again, only for arts or academia. A commercial conference doesn't count, annoyingly (or even a community conference…
What an amazing difference a single word makes. I have travelled to the UK to attend and speak at an academic conference, and I probably said so to border agents. That single word probably makes a difference. I never even considered that I would be turned away.
Yeah, they're trained to pick up on the tiniest things. People seem to get hung by the details they share.
I try to follow the "say as little necessary to answer the question" advice. Out of numerous trips, I've only ever gotten to mentioning speaking once. Every other time, "why are you entering [country]?" gets "to attend an industry conference", and that's usually the end of it.
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#88> They are now in a database for ten years where they will be shared with all members of the EEA, which is most European countries.
Given that she's an American, I really have no sympathies for this. I've had to give my fingerprints to the US border agents every time I went to the US.
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#89This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…
It's not about lying, it's about giving only the information requested. "I'm attending a conference" would have been ok too, or even "I'm travelling for business" - I've used both in the US without the border agent asking any more questions. When you volunteer a lot of information you come across as nervous, and sketchy
As a US citizen, I go to my company's Canadian office every so often. I have no issues saying it's for business -- the first time ever I was a noob and was asked to park and go inside for more questioning but once I clarified that my company is US HQ'd, that I was just there for meetings (not actual work?), and that I'm not a manager everything was swell. I later learned actual managers at my company never reveal they're a manager, or at least not over anyone they're going to meet with.
The other thing about volunteering extra information is it can come back to bite you if you're not consistent next time, so I also try being as vague but still truthful as possible. If I was visiting anywhere else but Canada, though, I wouldn't have any problems skipping the whole drama with "I'm traveling for a vacation" and "nope, not meeting anyone I know" regardless of whether that is true or not.
Border crossing is basically a hazing ritual in a lot of places, and while I agree with GP's "this was her mistake" it really is dumb we all have to put up with the hazing. Kind of like not bribing a cop in [insert south american nation here] who is giving you trouble, or bribing him with way too much money. Some people just don't get that there are dumb, sucky customs where not following them (or trying to follow what they think is the most honest or rational process) is a mistake and complaining about the mistake after the fact won't solve anything.
Re: A deportation at the UK border
#90This was her mistake: "..where a young man somberly asked me what brought me to the UK. “I’m giving a talk at a conference then traveling to see a bit of England. I have a letter of invitation,” I replied, confidently handing over the requested documents." Just say "A short vacation", whether it is or not. Don't give the agent any more information than they need. Throughout her entire encounter with the agents, she w…
Isn't it illegal to work for money while claiming you're just doing tourism? Seems like it could get her denied from future visits.
When dealing with a rigid system built on stupid rules it's better to avoid direct confrontation.
She would have a 0.1% chance of being denied future visits vs the 50% chance of going through the experience she faced.