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Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

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Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#31
As an employer I'd look at bootcamp participation as a sign that the applicant doesn't know how to program. Just like all of Sun's nee Oracle's and MS's (well, and Oracle's) cert programs 15 years ago.

If you truly don't know how to program but want a coding job, then here's a $0 class. Start with JavaScript. Why? The entire internet is based on JavaScript, it can do anything, it runs on any OS, and it's easy to learn.

Google how to write a "hello world" web server program in node.js. (js stands for JavaScript. node.js is the most popular way to write web server in JavaScript). Follow that tutorial through.

Next, update it to make it tell the current time, updating once per second. Make a client-side and a server-side version of the app. Client-side means your code is in the HTML page and gets executed by the browser. Server-side means the code is on the web server, and your browser pings the server once per second for the correct time. Server-side is a bit more complex. Google is your friend in this. stackoverflow.com is a great community and resource to learn from (but search for existing answers before asking questions!).

Next step is to find a TodoMVC tutorial (google again) in node.js, follow it through, and publish to heroku. You probably want to google "node.js todomvc heroku tutorial". (I didn't but I'm sure something would turn up). This will teach you about databases, version control (specifically "git"), hosting, and deployment. At the end of the day you'll have fully functional web app that anyone can use just by knowing the URL! Really once you've worked through that, or, once you're able to do it from scratch without googling much, you're a coder. Rejoice.

At that point put your TodoMVC code on github (google again, but the place people share code via "the git"), and start mucking with it. Whatever suits your fancy: if you're into UX then spend time making the UX cleaner. If you're into databases or programming languages, adapt to different ones. If you're into performance, then blaze that path. Or if you're just not into todo lists, then use your newfound knowledge to start a project WRT something you do like.

Final step, ping potential employers and show off your github account. You'll certainly get a look from SMB owners who are looking for people with some intrinsic motivation. You'll put people who subcontract their drive to bootcamp programs to shame.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#33
Drills, close quarters, hard work sounds like boot camp. App academy changed my life. "Anyone who tries for 6 months can get a job" really? You think that education is expensive? How much did you spend at college, and what job were you qualified for after that?

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#34

Flatiron School was nothing like this. We had long lectures every day by a great senior-level dev, and then review sessions with recent grads later in the day. It was a really polished curriculum, and a great environment to work hard in. $20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money. I used to do something I didn't love for a living and now I get to write code. Life is short. I'm thankful bootcamps exist and there wa…

Circa a year ago the remote HR experience was pretty great. While the lectures were pre-recorded (to be expected) we always had Q&A sessions to demystify any remaining questions. And our tech leads were from notable companies.

I figured the remote option was really as great as it gets - the majority of the learning still being applicable (many teams work via repositories rather than shared drives anyways) while getting to do the whole thing with no pants from my room in Arizona (much cheaper living expenses).

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#35
post #30
post #18

This post reads like the author holds the school responsible for the students success. Programming does not work that way. You MUST make yourself successful. Even giving a minutes thought to a schools "result stats" entirely misses the point. Taking this to the next level, I don't think people should be paying to go to any sort of coding school. Spend the money on a second monitor and living expenses and sit at home…

I think this is a popular opinion that's just not realistic. There is a >0% of the population (much greater IMO) that is more productive learning in a structured environment. For those people there is an amount >0$ that they would be willing to pay for that structured environment. To say otherwise is basically just a glib, "Well I did it so why can't you?"

There is no "structured environment" when you get a job in programming. You are given goals and you need to get the result through learning and problem solving and just trying to make the damn thing work.

If the only context in which a person is capable of operating is one in which they are "taught" then they aren't suited to programming.

You have to do it on your own eventually so many as well get started on the task of becoming good at that.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we charge $20k because the median student gets a ~$50k raise" Horseshit alert if I've ever heard one.

Yeah, my raise was more along the lines of $140k. But I went from Shift Lead Walgreens to contract Web Developer at Google, so... there's that.

Right, because you can hire from the graduating class of Stanford, Berkeley, CMU, MIT, etc., and instead you choose a Walgreens Shift Lead from a "coding bootcamp."

Sounds legit.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, much cheaper than a $40,000 4-year commitment (from a public university, assuming $5,000 semesters - which is very lenient).

That's been brought up a few times in this thread. I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. You can borrow student loans for college, but the $20k comes out of pocket.

That >$40k+interest in loans still gets paid out of your pocket.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#38

(I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor.) It's always a bummer when an alum would not recommend the program. I hate reading posts like this and I'd love to buy the poster a beer and learn more so we can do it different next time. (Email is in profile!) Here's a bit of inside baseball: This post is representative of a troubled period at our school. We had a couple of overlapping key problems and recent alums have been less s…

"we charge $20k because the median student gets a ~$50k raise" Horseshit alert if I've ever heard one.

50k to 100k median doesn't seem too far fetched to me. Myself and many people I know were in that range.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we charge $20k because the median student gets a ~$50k raise" Horseshit alert if I've ever heard one.

Yeah, my raise was more along the lines of $140k. But I went from Shift Lead Walgreens to contract Web Developer at Google, so... there's that.

Yeah, im gonna call bullshit on this one too.

You got into google because google actively recruits military vets, not because of the bootcamp experience, which might have helped get you over the hump, but unlikely caused it.

It took you 3 years between shift lead and google.

~your lovely neighborhood ex-people search engine founder.

P.S. thank you for your navy service (in all seriousness)

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my raise was more along the lines of $140k. But I went from Shift Lead Walgreens to contract Web Developer at Google, so... there's that.

Right, because you can hire from the graduating class of Stanford, Berkeley, CMU, MIT, etc., and instead you choose a Walgreens Shift Lead from a "coding bootcamp." Sounds legit.

Parent is being disingenious. They held 5 positions (plus military reserve) over a period of 4 years between "Walgreens Shift Lead" and "Web Application Developer" at a staffing agency.

I, too, got a six-figure "raise" from middle school to today.

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