Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate • Hacker News Board

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#21

Post by seangrogg » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:19 AM UTC

gk1 wrote: post #17

aczerepinski wrote: post #7

Flatiron School was nothing like this. We had long lectures every day by a great senior-level dev, and then review sessions with recent grads later in the day. It was a really polished curriculum, and a great environment to work hard in. $20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money. I used to do something I didn't love for a living and now I get to write code. Life is short. I'm thankful bootcamps exist and there wa…

> "$20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money." That is a very substantial amount of cash for most people. Not to mention the time commitment. (As you say, life is short.)

Eh, much cheaper than a $40,000 4-year commitment (from a public university, assuming $5,000 semesters - which is very lenient).

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#22

Post by seangrogg » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:21 AM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #14

shawndrost wrote: post #9

(I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor.) It's always a bummer when an alum would not recommend the program. I hate reading posts like this and I'd love to buy the poster a beer and learn more so we can do it different next time. (Email is in profile!) Here's a bit of inside baseball: This post is representative of a troubled period at our school. We had a couple of overlapping key problems and recent alums have been less s…

"we charge $20k because the median student gets a ~$50k raise" Horseshit alert if I've ever heard one.

Yeah, my raise was more along the lines of $140k. But I went from Shift Lead Walgreens to contract Web Developer at Google, so... there's that.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#23

Post by jstnjosepht » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:23 AM UTC

I had a good experience at MakerSqaure. I wouldn't disagree with some of the points brought up - at certain times the work is more solo-based and I too wondered what the instructors were being paid for. The "best practices" point is something that could definitely be more emphasized from a curriculum standpoint. This is kinda tricky when talking about React (for example) as best practices in a lot of ways are still being adopted.

In my case, the outcomes have been good (graduated earlier this year and make $20k more than my previous job) but I would agree that it's been an uphill battle getting an interview and negotiating salaries when there are more junior developers in the market. (HR/MKS markets grads as being more as "mid level" which is accurate for some - but it really is a spectrum.)

Overall I recommend these programs to people who are passionate about the field - but a lot might be motivated to attend for the wrong reasons.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#24

Post by gk1 » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:23 AM UTC

vanessa98 wrote: post #13

shawndrost wrote: post #9

(I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor.) It's always a bummer when an alum would not recommend the program. I hate reading posts like this and I'd love to buy the poster a beer and learn more so we can do it different next time. (Email is in profile!) Here's a bit of inside baseball: This post is representative of a troubled period at our school. We had a couple of overlapping key problems and recent alums have been less s…

Sounds like you owe the poster more than a beer

Seriously. The author feels as though they've lost $20k and months of their time, and the co-founder thinks the right response is to offer a beer and a chat.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#25

Post by seangrogg » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:25 AM UTC

hoodoof wrote: post #18

This post reads like the author holds the school responsible for the students success. Programming does not work that way. You MUST make yourself successful. Even giving a minutes thought to a schools "result stats" entirely misses the point. Taking this to the next level, I don't think people should be paying to go to any sort of coding school. Spend the money on a second monitor and living expenses and sit at home…

Wait, I actually need to apply to jobs and sit through interviews before I receive my $100k+ comp package? Ugh, screw that...

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#26

Post by rm999 » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:25 AM UTC

I hire data scientists, my experience interviewing through a boot camp for a year: the top 1-2 students in each class are great, the remaining 10-15 are anywhere from under-qualified to woefully unqualified. The one guy I hired from the bootcamp, easily the highest quality applicant from three classes we evaluated, told me he learned essentially nothing. He told me his teachers had no real qualifications or work experience. The students are charged 15K for 6 weeks, about the same amount I spent on my entire masters. We were charged 10K to hire him.

Bootcamps are a good idea in theory, but the execution makes it clear most of them are cash grabs and part of a disturbing culture in this country to massively profit off post secondary school education (at the expense of the students).

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#27

Post by aczerepinski » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:25 AM UTC

gk1 wrote: post #17

aczerepinski wrote: post #7

Flatiron School was nothing like this. We had long lectures every day by a great senior-level dev, and then review sessions with recent grads later in the day. It was a really polished curriculum, and a great environment to work hard in. $20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money. I used to do something I didn't love for a living and now I get to write code. Life is short. I'm thankful bootcamps exist and there wa…

> "$20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money." That is a very substantial amount of cash for most people. Not to mention the time commitment. (As you say, life is short.)

It isn't bad relative to what a developer earns in their first 10 years. Or even if it doesn't bring a great salary, working in software is fun.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#28

Post by Dr_tldr » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:27 AM UTC

shawndrost wrote: post #9

(I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor.) It's always a bummer when an alum would not recommend the program. I hate reading posts like this and I'd love to buy the poster a beer and learn more so we can do it different next time. (Email is in profile!) Here's a bit of inside baseball: This post is representative of a troubled period at our school. We had a couple of overlapping key problems and recent alums have been less s…

So you were part of the group of schools that refused to agree to a transparency initiative (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11872261) but you think self-publishing your own methodology with zero breakdown of what your categories mean is just as good?

Like, where are all of the grads employed by Hack Reactor to pad the numbers accounted for? What percentage of your students already have a CS degree when they walk in the door? Why is the size of the average class increasing at the same time the price is going up? Most importantly, why do some big name companies effectively blacklist your graduates now, and what are you doing about it?

Your "towering accomplishment of staggering magnitude" looks like marketing hype and a lack of transparency.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#29

Post by gk1 » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:27 AM UTC

seangrogg wrote: post #21

gk1 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "$20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money." That is a very substantial amount of cash for most people. Not to mention the time commitment. (As you say, life is short.)

Eh, much cheaper than a $40,000 4-year commitment (from a public university, assuming $5,000 semesters - which is very lenient).

That's been brought up a few times in this thread. I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. You can borrow student loans for college, but the $20k comes out of pocket.

Re: Confessions of a $20K bootcamp graduate

#30

Post by shoemai » Fri, Jun 10, 2016, 3:28 AM UTC

hoodoof wrote: post #18

This post reads like the author holds the school responsible for the students success. Programming does not work that way. You MUST make yourself successful. Even giving a minutes thought to a schools "result stats" entirely misses the point. Taking this to the next level, I don't think people should be paying to go to any sort of coding school. Spend the money on a second monitor and living expenses and sit at home…

I think this is a popular opinion that's just not realistic. There is a >0% of the population (much greater IMO) that is more productive learning in a structured environment. For those people there is an amount >0$ that they would be willing to pay for that structured environment. To say otherwise is basically just a glib, "Well I did it so why can't you?"