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Why no one cares about privacy anymore

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Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#11

Post by loup-vaillant »

hooande wrote: post #9

I understand that there isn't a commonly accepted term for "I'm creeped out by how much information about me is available", but we need to stop using "privacy". If we keep throwing the word around it will lose all meaning. Someone taking a picture of your street and putting it on the internet doesn't violate your privacy. Someone making use of information that you volunteered to a social networking site doesn't viola…

The big problem lies in "volunteering". People mostly don't volunteer. They just don't understand. Writing something on my web site or here, is volunteering. It is public and I know it. Insulting my boss in my Facebook wall, imagining that only my friends will know it, then getting fired over that is not volunteering. It's lacking a clue.

And I'm only talking about information I explicitly put there. I didn't talk about what could be inferred from that, which can be quite a lot. Even more so when this information is centralized so it can be compared to the other users'.

> Can anyone think of a case where someone's life was significantly impacted by the exposure of private information online?

To convince you, I feel I would have to point to a case where someone's live was suddenly impacted. It does happen, but the main impact is probably more subtle, like discriminations (which you can't see) or advertising (which can do a better job influencing you).

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#12

Post by loup-vaillant »

dustingetz wrote: post #10
fexl wrote: post #2

Voluntary transparency is good for reputation and good for business. However, I choose not to live in a glass house. To those who demand to know what I'm trying to hide, I demand to know what they're trying to steal.

trying to steal? what? edit: my point is that telling the people you're trying to convince that they are somehow stealing, is not helping our cause.

This is an analogy to physical possessions. "Steal" translate to "disclose", here.

Personally, I don't like analogies very much. I go for a more direct approach:

Google: "If I am doing nothing wrong, then I have nothing to hide",

Privacy advocate: "if I am doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to see".

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#13

Post by scscsc »

RyanDScott wrote: post #7

I know I'm greatly generalizing here, but when it comes to privacy there are two types of people: good people with legitimate things to hide and bad people with bad things to hide. Knowledge is everything. If I know the government is logging my chats and I'm in the "good people" category, I'll try not to say anything I don't want public and at the same time hope they are catching the "bad people" by logging their cha…

Besides yourself, who is good?

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#14

Post by inimino »

hooande wrote: post #9

I understand that there isn't a commonly accepted term for "I'm creeped out by how much information about me is available", but we need to stop using "privacy". If we keep throwing the word around it will lose all meaning. Someone taking a picture of your street and putting it on the internet doesn't violate your privacy. Someone making use of information that you volunteered to a social networking site doesn't viola…

Why is the software you use on your own computer a matter of privacy, while the sites you visit, Web applications you use, and amount of time you spend on them, is not? Before you say "because there is a Web site involved", consider that Microsoft could just as easily have the OS report on what applications you use (or even what emails you write), to better serve you ads, or for any other reason. Your "spyware" comment implies that you would object to this, yet you do not seem to have any objection to companies that deliver applications online doing what amounts to the same thing.

People "volunteer" information about themselves online without intending to or without being aware of what they are revealing (or what Facebook et al will do with it) and what is or is not considered an invasion of privacy is a largely arbitrary social construct. That is why these are real issues, and the answers are not as trivially obvious as you seem to think.

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#15

Post by Groxx »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #12
dustingetz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trying to steal? what? edit: my point is that telling the people you're trying to convince that they are somehow stealing, is not helping our cause.

This is an analogy to physical possessions. "Steal" translate to "disclose", here. Personally, I don't like analogies very much. I go for a more direct approach: Google: "If I am doing nothing wrong, then I have nothing to hide", Privacy advocate: "if I am doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to see".

Privacy advocate is closer to "If you don't suspect me of something, you have no reason to be looking".

"Innocent until proven guilty" isn't meant to protect the guilty, it's meant to protect the innocent.

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#16

Post by tedunangst »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #11
hooande wrote: post #9

I understand that there isn't a commonly accepted term for "I'm creeped out by how much information about me is available", but we need to stop using "privacy". If we keep throwing the word around it will lose all meaning. Someone taking a picture of your street and putting it on the internet doesn't violate your privacy. Someone making use of information that you volunteered to a social networking site doesn't viola…

The big problem lies in "volunteering". People mostly don't volunteer. They just don't understand. Writing something on my web site or here, is volunteering. It is public and I know it. Insulting my boss in my Facebook wall, imagining that only my friends will know it, then getting fired over that is not volunteering. It's lacking a clue. And I'm only talking about information I explicitly put there. I didn't talk ab…

How is insulting your boss on your Facebook wall different from dissing him at a bar then discovering that the bartender is his brother?

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#17

Post by fexl »

dustingetz wrote: post #10
fexl wrote: post #2

Voluntary transparency is good for reputation and good for business. However, I choose not to live in a glass house. To those who demand to know what I'm trying to hide, I demand to know what they're trying to steal.

trying to steal? what? edit: my point is that telling the people you're trying to convince that they are somehow stealing, is not helping our cause.

I don't trust any individual who insists on observing everything I say or do. It is very likely that such an individual aims to control my life or property by threat of force.

I used the word "steal" for that concept because it was the only word that sprang to mind. I'm happy to reword it if you think of something else.

Re: Why no one cares about privacy anymore

#20

Post by jellicle »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #5

Wow. I don’t claim to know specifically where the line between “journalism” and “propaganda piece” lies but I think this article crosses it. The way I see it this article’s points fall into two categories. The first is using alarmists as examples and pretending no one else is concerned about privacy. Yes, the folks who thought Google Street View was an invasion of privacy were a little extreme but they certainly don’…

I knew this would be a Declan McCullagh article before I clicked through.

To be fair, McCullagh isn't writing this piece as propaganda for Google. He has strong, pre-existing, libertarian/pro-corporate beliefs, including the one that government privacy regulations are right up there with genocide and mandatory abortions for everyone. He has never written an article where he saw benefit in "privacy", nor will he ever.

So, yes, he's distorting the picture and propagandizing about the death of privacy. But he's doing it to push his own beliefs, and not Google's.

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