So you're guilty until proven innocent, police are spending the money, and 7.7% is going to the manufacturer; sounds like a racket!
Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
451–460 of 517 posts
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is why someone who has assets confiscated can make a claim (with a very low burden of proof) to get them back. People here are making it sound like that doing this is incredibly difficult or expensive but it's really not.
Depriving someone of their property – even temporarily – and forcing them to spend otherwise profitable time making a claim to get it back is a form of damage. What you're proposing would allow agents of the government to damage people as frequently as they wanted, with impunity.
You realize you can be arrested and held in jail before a trial right? That's exactly same thing as confiscating assets pending a trial.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bonus question: In countries that are still exempt from highway police robbery such as in Europe, what can we do to avoid gliding towards it? Isn't HPR a natural evolution of the increased number of police agents after massive terrorist attacks, like the two we've just had in France?
Extricate yourselves from the EU, which desperately wants to become a single central government and will relentlessly pull in that direction as long it is allowed to exist, and go back to smaller, more manageable units of government.
Isn't a big federation required if we want to have any weight in negotiation against the USA? I mean all small lonely countries of the world are merly more than banana republics. But I retain your point.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
So if it's clear that a person is in possession of illegally obtained property, but it's a mystery exactly how they got it so law enforcement can't indict them for a crime, they should just get to keep it?
If it's "clear" the money result from illegal activity, they will be charged with a crime. Surely you are not advocating replacing the courts with truthiness and gut feelings?
No, I'm just saying that the legal standard for proving that property (usually money) was obtained illegally is lower than the legal standard for convicting someone for a crime and throwing them in jail.
Asset forfeiture is, and always has been, subject to judicial oversight.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, if it's clear who the property is owned by it goes back to the rightful owner. But in cases where that is unclear or nonsensical (like money obtained by selling illegal drugs) it goes to the state. Where else would it go?
It goes to the state after due process. That's not what's being described here.
There is due process for civil asset forfeiture.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, if it's clear who the property is owned by it goes back to the rightful owner. But in cases where that is unclear or nonsensical (like money obtained by selling illegal drugs) it goes to the state. Where else would it go?
Where else would it go? A disinterested third party - not the police department that had the power to confiscate it. The state or a specific public good - i.e.: housing/food banks etc. could work.
I do agree with this actually. Rather that going straight to law enforcement budgets the money should go to the general coffers to be allocated by the legislature.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simple: pay for things you need. Over the last few decades the American people have been conned into this idea that government is fundamentally too big and needs to be shrunk because of reasons. People save a few measly percentage points on taxes that help pay for the axle damage on their car after being driven over roads that are no longer repaired. Municipalities had to find ways to recoup costs from slashed state…
Municipalities had to find ways to recoup costs from slashed state and federal budgets When was the last time you saw any gov't budget go down? I'd say never. The gov't has more than enough money. The problem is where and how they spend it.
The federal government slashed transportation budgets like two months ago which reduced my city's municipal transit budget by $300,000. Routes are being reduced at a time that high housing costs are moving people further out from the city center.
So no, not "never."
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
It goes to the state after due process. That's not what's being described here.
There is due process for civil asset forfeiture.
That is the discussion going on - that what _could_ be due process is being manipulated for the various departments' purposes.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#459Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Officer involved shooting" These are all language tricks used to manipulate the masses. "Double plus good" is not a stretch at this point if we become complacent to this kind of manipulation. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/07/14/...
"collateral damage" - these sorts of tricks are not new.
The CIA is the master of yhese euphemisms; "extraordinary rendition" for kidnapping and "enhanced interrogation" for torture.
Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards
#460Remember this is without trial, without immediate oversight. Hopefully the incredulity of this will put a spotlight on civil forfeiture and end it once and for all. But it probably will take a decade to get to the supreme court and this will ruin lives in the meanwhile. And then there is who is going to fill the next three supreme court judge slots and how they feel about "the police can do no wrong" authoritarianism…
This is a very naive view. It will ruin life, some people will protest, but the majority, will, as with the proverbial frog in the hot water, stay quiete. And it will just be one additional step toward a totalitarian state. It's just tiny steps. It will take time. But here the regularity matters.
The simple existence of the Patriot Act, which destroys the very basis of the US legal system (the habeas corpus) and ignore blatantly the constitution, proves that the Suprem Court is not the democratic safety net it's supposed to be.