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Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

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Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#401

Post by rdtsc »

ahallock wrote: post #65
stackus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're never charged with a crime, the object is and it is not given representation. So there's no "innocent until proven guilty" for inanimate objects. Despicable, and akin to highway robbery in my opinion.

That doesn't make sense. Objects cannot commit crimes since they aren't human beings and thus cannot act, have rights, etc. Is this what Statism has come to? I know we have the whole corporations are people nonsense, but this is straying even further into complete irrationality. I know it's just to circumvent the law, but if they can create fiction like that, there's pretty much no law and order anymore.

Because of War On Drugs people had no problem with this. If you had asked when this law was passed someone random Joe Schmoe on the street -- "Is this a good law, we'll get all those rich drug lords?". They would have probably nodded and agreed.

So the law was pushed through. Then some day cops realized they can apply this law for fun and profit. And so they have been.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#402

Post by deciplex »

protomyth wrote: post #264
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a well off white guy had to deal with the police in a negative context for the first time in his life and that changed his opinion of them and the power they do or don't deserve

I think calling someone racist just because of their skin color and economic position is wrong and adds to the level of hate in society.

First of all, he didn't call him racist. Secondly, pointing out that for some reason long-standing problems suddenly seem to get a lot more attention once they start negatively affecting white people is not promoting hate - it is calling attention to racism.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#404

Post by orbitingpluto »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #382
orbitingpluto wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the question, "obstructing what?"

And the answer, of course, is "Justice." It's like being charged solely with resisting arrest.

Or destruction of government property when you bleed on them during a beating? Ferguson:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-fer...

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#405

Post by rdtsc »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #72

As a libertarian, I've seen a long line of articles that make me go Holy Cow! It's gotten so I feel bad about it. I even apologize. Each time, I think "Well that's it, there's nothing that could go beyond this." Holy cow! Several years ago I sold a small lot which had an office on it. The guy who bought it paid cash. Cash is kinda unusual for this kind of transaction, so I asked him where he got it. He told me that h…

> There has been a long tradition in the states of assuming the best when dealing with the local constable.

Heh! I came from a country where police torture people routinely. Any suspect who lands in police custody has a good chance of being tortured. They know how to do it, so it causes psychological distress but doesn't leave huge marks on the body. My friend and I once caught a pickpocket and took him to a police station. Cops were bored and proceeded to torture him behind a closed door in order for him to reveal where his buddies were hiding. At first we were so happy we caught the tiny criminal. By the end of the evening I felt pretty sorry for the guy.

Anyway, that is how I see cops. Rationally I know they are not all like that, and we are not in anymore. But deep down instinctively I still have that fear of them. It is scary and dissappointing that people in this country are slowly starting to adopt the same attitude toward police because of how police is acting.

> While the constable himself might be a nice enough, stand-up guy, the system as a whole is terribly corrupt and overbearing.

If constable ever kept this mouth shut when he saw their co-workers abuse their power, they have stopped being a good stand-up guy at that very instant.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#406

Post by deciplex »

tajen wrote: post #278
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #74

Symptom of a bigger problem: nobody in the criminal justice system is punished for making the wrong move. There is no law enforcement downside to civil asset forfeiture. Officer-involved shootings are discouraged from prosecution or otherwise involve highly-paid "expert" witnesses saying the officer had no other choice - at taxpayer expense. Prosecutors are valued by the number of wins, not by how many innocent peopl…

Bonus question: In countries that are still exempt from highway police robbery such as in Europe, what can we do to avoid gliding towards it? Isn't HPR a natural evolution of the increased number of police agents after massive terrorist attacks, like the two we've just had in France?

Don't fall for the trap of believing civil rights and due process are something only law-abiding citizens deserve. At this point in America enough people think that if you're accused of a crime basically from that point forward any "rights" you may enjoy are solely at the indulgence of society / the criminal justice system and can be (and, often, should be) taken away at any time. Unless it's really obvious you're innocent, it's game over, and even then any abuses will be written off as honest mistakes (or, in the worst case, a few bad apples) instead of symptoms of systemic injustice.

It also doesn't help that the public defender system in the States is a fucking joke. So don't do that, either.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#407

Post by walrus01 »

downandout wrote: post #313

Here's a fun little video from the manufacturer extolling the virtues and showing a demo of their device: https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7NYI These are some truly evil people. Apparently they can only target prepaid cards with this thing, which unsurprisingly will disproportionately affect people with lower incomes (the "unbanked"). According to the manufacturer's FAQ [1]: Intel™ and ERAD-Recovery™ will only retrieve balanc…

> will only retrieve balances from open loop prepaid debit cards

so the poor get fucked two ways:

1) these prepaid debit cards have a lot of fees and service charges associated with them, they're basically in the same financial category for the "unbanked" as predatory payday loans, check cashing places and other financial services retail operations you see in a ghetto.

2) the people who have these cards with some balance on them risk getting all their money jacked by the local police.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#408

Post by gozur88 »

eric_h wrote: post #366
gozur88 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, people have property rights, which, in this case, they've stripped without due process. Or indeed, any process at all. There's no way I'd carry a bank card in OK.

This comment[1] suggests that the product does not work with an actual bank card, only prepaid cards, which boggles the mind. 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11865494

The article says "Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards."

It wouldn't be the first time a news article was wrong, though it'd be nice to know for sure.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#409

Post by retrogradeorbit »

cornchips wrote: post #359
downandout wrote: post #313

Here's a fun little video from the manufacturer extolling the virtues and showing a demo of their device: https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7NYI These are some truly evil people. Apparently they can only target prepaid cards with this thing, which unsurprisingly will disproportionately affect people with lower incomes (the "unbanked"). According to the manufacturer's FAQ [1]: Intel™ and ERAD-Recovery™ will only retrieve balanc…

Yes, evil. As is Sergeant Rob Hain (of Chicago) who uploaded this... "Sheriff's Deputy Ron Hain improperly detained Marsh after issuing him a warning and continued questioning him when he should have been free to leave, Barsanti ruled. The questioning led to Marsh's admission he was carrying a gun, which prompted further searches of his truck, phones, GPS and eventually the storage lockers." "The discovery was made b…

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#410

Post by protomyth »

deciplex wrote: post #402
protomyth wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling someone racist just because of their skin color and economic position is wrong and adds to the level of hate in society.

First of all, he didn't call him racist. Secondly, pointing out that for some reason long-standing problems suddenly seem to get a lot more attention once they start negatively affecting white people is not promoting hate - it is calling attention to racism .

First of all, he didn't call him racist.

When you start a comment with "well off white guy", you are indicating the person is a racist since they are ignoring problems of their fellow humans because of the person's race. If you substitute any other race in that statement, people would find it to be an accusation of racism. I suppose there is another interpretation of that line, but I am trying very hard to be charitable to posters (I do fail quite a bit).

pointing out that for some reason long-standing problems suddenly seem to get a lot more attention once they start negatively affecting white people is not promoting hate

from the article: ''It's called an ERAD, or Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machine, and state police began using 16 of them last month.''

I would submit his current problem is not long standing since it started last month. Also, we do not know his history of speaking out about civil forfeiture. Why, the incident with his wife could have been a "shutup" warning from the police. I said I provided a piece of data, and I have not really had time to look at the context.

As to the second half, pointing out some issue is racial and the participant only started noticing because of their race is informing your reader that you believe that person to be racist.

it is calling attention to racism

Which implies that a belief that someone is being racist. Thus calling him a racist as he is the only protagonist mentioned.

You know, I grew up in the grey between two different groups, and I sometime wish I could have been raised in a suburb or had a little more blood to qualify as the other group. Being able to say "I am..." in a clear voice is an amazing powerful thing. I've gotten to see what absolute shits groups going too far can be on each other when one believes they can say and do things with minimum risk. Assumptions about people based on their race are just wrong. Judge a person by their word and deed with a kind eye and hopeful heart. I fail at this quite a lot, but I think I'm ok with what I wrote.

// as a side note, I love hnreplies and if I had cash I would suggest adding a blackout time feature

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