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Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

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Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#191

Post by jimbokun »

CPLX wrote: post #162
jimbokun wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have separate categories for non profit and academic positions. But for positions in private industry, I don't care. If you really, really need a foreign employee over a domestic one, you will need to pay the H1B premium, competing with everyone else. It's more fair than a system based on luck, or arbitrary criteria of review board or something guaranteed to be games and manipulated.

But the goal of the system isn't fairness, it's to provide needed skills to American businesses. It sounds like you're looking at this from the perspective of a job-seeking foreign national, but that's not actually a constituency here, they aren't American, don't vote, and our government is not intending to help them with this program. The supposed point is to make sure American companies can compete. The idea of onl…

"The supposed point is to make sure American companies can compete."

I don't really care about this, either. I care more about American people than American companies. Companies, American or otherwise, are doing fine.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#192

Post by unclebucknasty »

bduerst wrote: post #187
unclebucknasty wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The point doesn't still stand. It never stood. All else held constant, increased labor supply means lower wages for all. So, the prevailing wage goes down for everyone. Sure, companies have to pay everyone equally, so everyone just gets paid less. It's simple supply and demand. I think some are taking these simple statements of fact as some sort of anti-immigrant rant or advocacy of the current H1-B policy. It's…

It is a pretty simple supply and demand curve, but again you're intentionally ignoring the facts about prevailing wage (PW) and operating under the same misconception. H1B visas are only increasing supply for jobs that pay above the PW, not "all" jobs. That means that there is not additional supply for below PW jobs. If anything, the PW goes up because of the increased liquidity for supplying above average wages. Thi…

>I seem to have hit a nerve - You've replied three different times to the same thing and are incoherent at this point. I guess you're still trying to convince yourself there's a problem?

Yes, you're absolutely right. And this comment makes it four responses, so that means you must be extra-right. There's simply no other explanation.

So, you obviously completely understand now. Very impressive!

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#193

Post by jean_claude »

bogomipz wrote: post #88
jean_claude wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. The GP is correct, domestic students rarely, if ever, pay the true cost of attendance at colleges and universities (hereafter, called 'schools') [1]. The are taxpayer…

What tax payer subsidies? Please explain because I am not aware of any. If you are talking about the 501c3 status that some Universities have that has not reduced tuition costs for anybody in state or otherwise. Additionally the state contributes very little these days to a state university, case in point the UC system. As far your link that only concerns Pell Grants. Pell Grants are only available to "people of need…

In an article from The Atlantic[1], you can clearly see that total direct federal and state subsidies to higher education in 2014 are about $140 billion with another $20 billion in indirect subsidies. Yes, some of this goes to help offset the cost of attendance through Pell grants and tax credits to the family and shouldn't affect the tuition cost directly.

From the article I linked in the previous message, it does not only address Pell grants:

>>Total federal support to higher education of "nearly $76 billion" with Pell grants being $36 billion and "nearly $25 billion in research funding obligations."

[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/05/the-rea...

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#194

Post by jmspring »

MrTonyD wrote: post #180
jmspring wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if H1-B, and skilled visas in general, was truly about skill level and best fit, fine. However, every situation (like Disney) where visas are used to bring in labor to be trained to replace technical workers who may not necessarily be the HN crowd, but are a vital part of business, should be disallowed. If a company wants to offshore, fine, but it shouldn't use the Visa system to have workers being replaced t…

I don't really know if skill level should be the only consideration. I think that every country has an obligation to consider its citizens. I'm not saying that citizenship should be the only consideration - but I do think that it should be a strong one. Here in the US, I know many technical people who hit mid-forties and couldn't find a job anymore, in spite of having great technical skills. So maybe there should be…

I personally hate the H1-B/visa system for anything but skilled graduates being targeted for specific roles. I also hate the loss of the social contract where companies actually invested employees and helped them grow.

IBM, Disney and others are trying for a race to the bottom.

I also know that it is incumbent on people in our field to stay on top of things, continue to learn, etc. But not everywhere has the same access to knowledge (or may not know how to find it) as those of us already naturally curious.

In no form should Visas be granted to bring workers over to be trained by those replacing them. Unless maybe it's something insane like $100k/head going into training programs. But, that's all fantasy on my part.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#195

Post by splintercell »

natmaster wrote: post #46
steego wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much better solution would to remove any barriers an H1B worker has to shop for a better job. If we want to live an egalitarian society, it's in our collective interest for immigrants to earn as much as the rest of us. That only happens when we dismantle systems that provide an incentive to exploit immigrants.

Why is America the only place to live in the world? Are you saying the rest of the world is terrible?

Yes

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#196

Post by enraged_camel »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #186
enraged_camel wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original intent of the H1B program does not matter. It was created for a specific purpose but has since evolved to fulfill other goals. What matters is that, ultimately, it is in the USA's best interest to have skilled and educated people from all over the world to join its population and contribute to its economy. It is one of the mechanisms through which it can stay ahead of other countries. That's why the H1B…

What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. Sorry, but if you want to fix the problems created by the program, then you have to scrap it and call the new thing something else. But, as long as it is tethered to filling specialty needs of certain companies as the core justification for holders being in-country, then you have sponsorship. And, with sponsorship comes…

>>What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence.

It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate application process for Green Card that's independent from the work visa, and not everyone is accepted.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#197

Post by unclebucknasty »

enraged_camel wrote: post #196
unclebucknasty wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. Sorry, but if you want to fix the problems created by the program, then you have to scrap it and call the new thing something else. But, as long as it is tethered to filling specialty needs of certain companies as the core justification for holders being in-country, then you have sponsorship. And, with sponsorship comes…

>>What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate application process for Green Card that's independent from the work visa, and not everyone is accepted.

>It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate...

That is exactly my point.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#198

Post by mh_yam »

vitd wrote: post #178
mh_yam wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

Serious question - I don't in any way intend this to sound inflammatory. If you've been here almost 10 years and have set down roots, why haven't you just applied to be a citizen? It sounds like you want to stay, and frankly, it sounds like it would be good for us to have you. Is there something holding you back beyond just personal preference? (Or are you already in the process but haven't completed it?)

Foreigners can't apply to be a citizen just because they've been here for 10 years. The US immigration system is so f*cked up and the current administration favors illegal immigrants over legal ones.

The most common pathway for those who complete their studies in the US and want to remain in the country to work is to obtain a work visa (H-1, L-1, TN, etc) under employer sponsorship. And then, some of these visas permit immigrant intent i.e. your employer can sponsor your green card even though you're technically on a temporary worker visa.

I'd love to get permanent residency and possibly citizenship. The framework in place right now is tedious and frankly, outright hostile to those of us doing everything right to remain in this country. Thankfully, I'm not from one of the countries with huge visa backlogs - I can only imagine their pain.

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