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Why I Would Raise Chickens

gatesnotes.com

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Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#61

Post by DanielStraight »

bko wrote: post #3

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a family in poverty. Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having very unusual unintended cons…

This is a relevant question to ask. This stuff is hard and it takes a lot of oversight to make it work. But that doesn't mean that we should assume every charity is producing negative consequences which outweigh the good they do. That would be just as naive as assuming charities have no negative consequences.

For what it's worth, Heifer International has released quite a few detailed reports on their projects which you can review here: (http://www.heifer.org/ending-hunger/our-impact/reports.html). If you're satisfied, maybe consider giving. If not, and you're qualified to offer a contrary explanation, please share it.

But assuming a negative impact without reviewing their approach is a perfect example of what has come to be known as "middlebrow dismissal". "Charities can have negative consequences which outweigh their good, this is a charity, therefore it has negative consequences which outweigh its good" is not a valid argument. The propensity of charities to produce negative unintended consequences is a sign to be careful, but not sufficient proof to dismiss charities outright.

Note that Charity Navigator gives Heifer International a nearly perfect score on Transparency and Accountability. (http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...)

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#62

Post by cschep »

dwc wrote: post #57
epalmer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in typical suburbia in Virginia USA. My youngest has a chinese friend whose family raises chickens in their yard. I'm pretty sure this is against zoning. They share their chicken and some wonderful vegetables from their gardens with the closest neighbors. So far, so good. I expect this will not persist.

> I'm pretty sure this is against zoning. Perhaps, but you might be surprised. Years ago I kept chickens and checked the zoning here (suburbs of Phoenix). No problem with a flock of hens. Roosters have restrictions. Many places are similar.

It's almost certainly about being a nuisance to your neighbors. Roosters crow super obnoxiously. Like.. wow. If you've ever tried to sleep with one nearby you know what I'm talking about. Just handle that edge case (e.g. don't keep a rooster around) and NO ONE will care if you have chickens that don't bother anyone :) Especially if you're into sharing the eggs!

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#63

Post by whiddershins »

Re: many people wondering why this hasn't happened organically, it is easy to underestimate how much cultural attitudes can affect common practice.

As an anecdote, when I visited rural China a couple of years back I asked my friends who grew up there why, if most people had one chicken, they didn't simply grow a few more?

The response was "you don't know what it was like back then. In the Mao attitude people would say ... 'who are you to have two chickens when everyone else only has one' " ... which was enough social pressure to keep everyone to one chicken, no matter how much that contributed to malnourishment.

I'm not proposing the same social attitudes are at play in these regions, but there may be other non-obvious contexts discouraging people from getting started with a flock.

For some scenarios I could imagine an initiative like this helping to break through inertia and change norms.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#64

Post by luckydude »

BillFranklin wrote: post #26
bko wrote: post #3

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a family in poverty. Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having very unusual unintended cons…

They lock you at home like any pet, difficult to move house and also keep the chickens, need a big garden, unless you have a huge garden they prevent social use of it, don't reliably lay, people work long hours and don't have the time for cleaning out pens and ensuring water/food is available, cost of keeping them far outweighs the fiscal benefit, they attract rats, you can't be keen on gardening and have free range…

Lock you at home? Get an automatic waterer and feeder, throw in some feed and go on vacation. I've got 25 hens and a rooster and they are good for a week or two on their own. Only problem is if nobody gathers eggs you'll have some broody hens.

Don't lay? I get a dozen eggs/day. Use lay crumbles not lay pellets; doing so doubles the output.

Enclosure? I used a horse stall for boxes/roosts and have big outside enclosure. Works great.

Your comments make sense for a pet like a dog, those do tie you down, but they make no sense for chickens in my experience.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#65

Post by calbear81 »

crpatino wrote: post #12
bko wrote: post #3

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a family in poverty. Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having very unusual unintended cons…

In order of severity: 1. Family ends up homeless because there is no legal framework to raise small anymals in urban environments, and the flock is framed as "unruly pets" by abusive landlord/neighbours. Family ends up worse than how they started without help. 2. Family receives the flock, but not any training/resources to tend them properly. Chickens die of illness, malnourishment, or get killed by urban predators (…

I would assume risk of theft might be an issue too when one family/person has significantly more chickens/wealth than others.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#66

Post by jsprogrammer »

bko wrote: post #3

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a family in poverty. Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having very unusual unintended cons…

Heifer generally does not perform a 1-to-1 action with your donations.

That is, donating a flock of chickens through Heifer is actually making a monetary donation to the entire organization. It is unlikely that your donation will be directly linked to a specific flock donation to a particular family (if it results in any animal donation at all).

According to the latest filing I have seen, less than half of a donation to Heifer will make it into a grant, or other assistance to an external entity (my guess is that salaries and benefits at these legally separate entities will consume a good chunk of those grants).

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#67

Post by fr0sty »

Etarip wrote: post #7
bko wrote: post #3

> If you read this article, watch the video above, and answer one question below, I will donate—on your behalf via Heifer—a flock of chickens to a family in poverty. Giving a flock of chickens to desperately poor families sounds like a great idea that will pay dividends for many years. However, I can't help but be reminded of the many charitable programs that sound great but end up having very unusual unintended cons…

Notice in the video how they're not feeding the chickens by letting them forage. They're always feeding them grain.

This is at least in part an editorial choice. Woman throwing grain to flock of chickens running around her feet is a much more interesting visual that chickens walking around foraging...

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#68

Post by jly »

hijinks wrote: post #38
clumsysmurf wrote: post #18

If you want to raise backyard chicks, double check your local chicken ordinances! Unfortunately, even when they are allowed, it can be the source of tension between neighbors: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/27/nation/la-na-nn-back...

We have 6 in our backyard and you hardly notice them. They are generally very quiet. The only times ours makes noise is if one chases another. The birds in the tree make a lot more noise.

I find the same thing. My neighbors and I have chickens on ~5000 sq ft fenced lots and you barely notice them, especially when compared with the local bird and insect population. My neighbor has a rooster and even that isn't a large bother.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#69

Post by paganel »

My parents live in a village in Eastern Europe with less than $2 a day (I also chip in to financially help them), and they do indeed raise chickens, they've being doing that for the last 15 years or so, since they moved out to the countryside.

Bill Gates is correct in his assessment, it's way more profitable to raise chickens than, say, cows. You need to have a bigger barn for cows, you need to do all the hay thing, which is very time consuming and demands a lot of extra work just for feeding said cows, you need to pay someone to take care of the cows when they go out to eat in the summer on the communal field. It's easier to just barter your chickens' eggs for some milk or cheese, that's at least what my mom does.

It's also quite profitable to grow beans and cabbage. They preserve well over winter well into spring and you can also use them for bartering.

Re: Why I Would Raise Chickens

#70

Post by sjs7007 »

cschep wrote: post #62
dwc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure this is against zoning. Perhaps, but you might be surprised. Years ago I kept chickens and checked the zoning here (suburbs of Phoenix). No problem with a flock of hens. Roosters have restrictions. Many places are similar.

It's almost certainly about being a nuisance to your neighbors. Roosters crow super obnoxiously. Like.. wow. If you've ever tried to sleep with one nearby you know what I'm talking about. Just handle that edge case (e.g. don't keep a rooster around) and NO ONE will care if you have chickens that don't bother anyone :) Especially if you're into sharing the eggs!

So what do you do when roosters are born...kill them?
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