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Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

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Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#201

Post by tantalor »

random28345 wrote: post #186
tantalor wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was authorised by the authorities It was not authorized by the card holder or a court order, so it is fraud.

> It was not authorized by the card holder or a court order, so it is fraud. Sorry, you're wrong. I've had the IRS steal money directly from my bank account to pay for taxes (and fees, and fines) I didn't owe. The bank won't help you, and I had to pay a tax lawyer $1,800 to get back $3,200 in taxes (and fines) from the IRS for a stock sale I never made. The bank treats withdrawals by government agencies as legitimate…

I think the IRS is a special case; I'd add them to the list I gave above.

A local police department or city government does not have this power.

Update: few more examples: http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/bankruptcy/wage-garnishm..., apparently this is quite common; still don't think PD can do it for this reason

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#202

Post by eonw »

hackuser wrote: post #126
eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

Asset seizure, under the same conditions, happens in many states. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10591250 And many more stories ... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=asset+seizure+site%3Aycombinator.c...

i know, its both sad and outrageous, good on the states putting an end to it on their own.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#203

Post by zrail »

imroot wrote: post #153

This is a copy of the contract that the OHP with ERAD Group: http://oklahomawatch.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2016/06/E... Highlights: * ERAD is taking 7.7% of all funds seized. * Anywhere between 9.95 and 14.95 per each virtual terminal used to scan for the funds. * $1000-ish per physical terminal used.

Searching for "debit" brings up this:

> In addition to presenting the value associated with a card, the terminal will read other card types such as credit and debit cards. While no value can be provided, the terminal will display a “card not supported” message to alert the trooper that this is not a prepaid card. The trooper can then compare the four digits displayed on the terminal with the last four digits shown on the face of the card to determine if the card has been cloned. If the last four digits on the face of the card do not match the four digits displayed on the terminal, the trooper should note the discrepancy and pursue further action in the investigation.

I'm not really sure why they compare the last 4 digits to detect a clone, that seems wrong to me. But in any case, that strongly implies that they can't seize from debit cards linked to bank accounts. They can only seize from prepaid cards.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#204

Post by isleyaardvark »

adaml_623 wrote: post #116
eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

Why would you say it's 'unamerican'? Your police force does similar things in almost every state don't they?

Most people use the word "unamerican" to describe something much different from "this isn't currently occurring inside America".

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#206

Post by FireBeyond »

zrail wrote: post #203
imroot wrote: post #153

This is a copy of the contract that the OHP with ERAD Group: http://oklahomawatch.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2016/06/E... Highlights: * ERAD is taking 7.7% of all funds seized. * Anywhere between 9.95 and 14.95 per each virtual terminal used to scan for the funds. * $1000-ish per physical terminal used.

Searching for "debit" brings up this: > In addition to presenting the value associated with a card, the terminal will read other card types such as credit and debit cards. While no value can be provided, the terminal will display a “card not supported” message to alert the trooper that this is not a prepaid card. The trooper can then compare the four digits displayed on the terminal with the last four digits shown on…

"I'm not really sure why they compare the last 4 digits to detect a clone, that seems wrong to me."

It catches lazy counterfeiting. Stamp a whole bunch of cards with the same number and info, while the magstripe is what gets read and is the real account you're stealing from, the theory being that no-one really cares about the number printed on the card.

Some retailers do this too, ask or enter the last four of the card to make sure the imprint matches the magstripe, as if they don't it's most likely a cloned card.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#207

Post by pc86 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #95
redditplebs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to lookup ERAD Inc. online. Fun times ahead!

I'm already spinning up a comprehensive FOIA request with MuckRock.com. Feel free to reply to my comment if anyone would like to collaborate.

Absolutely

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#208

Post by zrail »

FireBeyond wrote: post #206
zrail wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Searching for "debit" brings up this: > In addition to presenting the value associated with a card, the terminal will read other card types such as credit and debit cards. While no value can be provided, the terminal will display a “card not supported” message to alert the trooper that this is not a prepaid card. The trooper can then compare the four digits displayed on the terminal with the last four digits shown on…

"I'm not really sure why they compare the last 4 digits to detect a clone, that seems wrong to me." It catches lazy counterfeiting. Stamp a whole bunch of cards with the same number and info, while the magstripe is what gets read and is the real account you're stealing from, the theory being that no-one really cares about the number printed on the card. Some retailers do this too, ask or enter the last four of the ca…

Oh huh! I had no idea.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#209

Post by linkregister »

protomyth wrote: post #39
linkregister wrote: post #24

From the article: State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He said we've already seen cases in Oklahoma where police are abusing the system. "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen whe…

Looks, like it might be a bit problematic or something deeper given his wife's arrest http://kfor.com/2015/10/07/oklahoma-senators-wife-arrested-c... Not from OK, so I get the feeling this affects things, but not sure how.

Thanks for the added context!

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#210

Post by adventured »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #51
Zikes wrote: post #18

So we can't carry cash, because they'll seize that directly. This device could probably do some sort of run around the new chip system in cards. Bitcoin is nearly useless in the real world. So where does that leave us? Google & Apple Pay on our phones? At least our phones can be password protected.

And you'll get an obstruction of justice charge if you don't supply the password then and then be found in contempt of court if you don't give it up when you're before a judge.

Not in this case. The police legally can't pull you over and force you to unlock your phone via password. They'd have to go through a court process, and that's precisely where any attempt at theft will fall apart (more specifically, as the law stands today the police won't even attempt this line of approach because they know it'd fall apart in the court system before they're able to steal the money).
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