Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards • Hacker News Board

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#151

Post by cloudjacker » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

TrevorJ wrote: post #144

eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

This country is starting to look way too much like pre-revolutionary France, and that's bad for everyone .

lol, starting. people say that stuff in passive protest, you should look for the causes of the revolution in france, the causes for the declaration of independence, what bothered people so much back then

and then see if "starting" is actually applicable vs a glaring understatement

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#152

Post by programmarchy » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

Seems like a good use case for Bitcoin.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#153

Post by imroot » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

This is a copy of the contract that the OHP with ERAD Group:

http://oklahomawatch.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2016/06/E...

Highlights:

* ERAD is taking 7.7% of all funds seized.

* Anywhere between 9.95 and 14.95 per each virtual terminal used to scan for the funds.

* $1000-ish per physical terminal used.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#154

Post by joncp » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:21 PM UTC

brbsix wrote: post #67

diyorgasms wrote: post #27

I've seen it said before and I'll say it again. Anyone who works for companies who make products like this in any capacity should be blacklisted in the industry. The missing scruples here could fill several large containers.

I've always wondered about the people engineering devices like this, the people at Harris Corp. creating Stingrays and other surveillance platforms, how they feel about their work. Listing individual employees might be a bit much, but we could certainly create one of companies involved. Unfortunately I fear it would be a long list.

Harris has very very high turnover. I believe that people get hired not knowing what they're getting into. It takes a while to figure out that not all is as it should be.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#155

Post by jandrese » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #134

jandrese wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they're going to use that bullshit legal reasoning that because the money committed the crime, the money itself can be held responsible and seized, and money doesn't have 4th amendment protections because it's not a person.

Yet if it's not a person, it can't be convicted of a crime either. Has a dog ever been charged for biting, instead of its owner?

What makes you think money can't be put on trial?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U...

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#156

Post by tremon » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:25 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #155

tremon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet if it's not a person, it can't be convicted of a crime either. Has a dog ever been charged for biting, instead of its owner?

What makes you think money can't be put on trial? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U...

Oh I'm aware of that. I was pointing out the logical inconsistency between "not a person, so no 4th amendment" and "not a person, so no case"

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#157

Post by pdkl95 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:26 PM UTC

oolongCat wrote: post #61

I come from an Asian country, we are used to bribes, crooked politicians, government workers etc etc. To me the USA was the place where Neil Armstrong lived, it was the country that gave me so much that I was thankful for, it was a country where the words "Freedom of speech" ruled above everything. To me it was the country I wanted to be in if I had a wish. Little by little, that idea I had of the united states is be…

I once worked with a woman who immigrated from Russia who had learned computer science on punch cards. She was always full of energy and happy to be working on interesting project in the USA, because that kind of thing did not happen in the USSR. In that environment, you learned to "not be noticed". Bad things regularly happened to people that were noticed.

Her attitude changed in soon after the Bush administration started their wars in the middle east and the PATRIOT act was passed. When that came up in conversation one day, she suddenly got really serious and quietly said, "It's happening again." The same environment she had fled from the USSR was happening here, and it terrified her.

There was a change. The USA has always had problems, but there defiantly was a change that happened somewhat recently. I've been trying to fight it ever since, but all that has done is convince me that it's going to get a lot uglier before it any true reform is possible.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#158

Post by loeg » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:26 PM UTC

talmand wrote: post #148

e40 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing?

They aren't accusing the person of being a criminal, they are accusing the property of being obtained from alleged criminal activity. Property is not innocent until proven guilty.

That's a stupid argument and you know it. It doesn't do you much good to be "innocent" if the state just takes all of your money.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#159

Post by loeg » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #127

eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

> Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from That's language is too vague to mean much: Are you saying this is illegal, or are you saying it is unconstitutional, or are you saying it is immoral?

Immoral, obviously. Probably unconstitutional (that's one for the lawyers, though). Obviously not illegal.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#160

Post by Pwntastic » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 5:28 PM UTC

stackus wrote: post #50

wccrawford wrote: post #16

This reads like The Onion. I can't believe they're serious. >"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. ... Legit reason? How am I supposed to prove where every cent came from? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

You're never charged with a crime, the object is and it is not given representation. So there's no "innocent until proven guilty" for inanimate objects. Despicable, and akin to highway robbery in my opinion.

It is literally highway robbery, as it is the highway patrol pulling you over and stealing your money.