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Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

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Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#141

Post by wernercd »

drcode wrote: post #127
eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

> Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from That's language is too vague to mean much: Are you saying this is illegal, or are you saying it is unconstitutional, or are you saying it is immoral?

The US is built upon "Innocent until proven guilty" and "Speedy Trial".

That means you can't be jailed for murdering someone without a trial and you can't spend 10 years in jail before the trial. In the same way Assange is basically jailed without a trial or being proven guilty of anything.

"Asset forfeiture" in the US goes against everything that the above stands for. The fact that a government official (Cops, feds, etc) can take your money... link that money to "drugs" in some way... and keep that money (or assets) without a trial? Is un American.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#142

Post by davb »

cglace wrote: post #109
ikeboy wrote: post #11

>The largest part that we have found ... the biggest benefit has been the identity theft, Oh, so if I have a card in someone else's name, you'll charge it, thus causing someone who doesn't even know about it to lose? Any lawyers here want to weigh in on whether this would be identity theft/credit card fraud/etc on the part of the police and hence illegal? Isn't scanning/charging a card without authorization illegal?

>Oh, so if I have a card in someone else's name, you'll charge it, thus causing someone who doesn't even know about it to lose? From what I understand the technology is for seizing money from prepaid cards. For other cards it just looks up information about the account. Thats how it helps with identity theft.

From the article:

> Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#144

Post by TrevorJ »

eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

This country is starting to look way too much like pre-revolutionary France, and that's bad for everyone.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#146

Post by diyorgasms »

s_q_b wrote: post #128
devishard wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws you're talking about will never occur if the people making those laws are non-technical. As an industry we need to self-regulate, and have our self-regulation have the weight of law behind it. This system works fairly well, for example, in the medical profession, where you can lose your license to practice medicine based on principles set forth by other doctors.

That's essentially an argument for a professional licensure system for software development. Setting aside that professional licensure requirements are anathema to the spirit of the hacker movement, they would likely have prevented the creation of a massive pool of technology companies, including Apple, Microsoft, and Facebook. Even that proposal would stifle innovation. However, what's being suggested by the OP is n…

I agree that these are all significant challenges. However I believe that in the absence of a licensing body, we as professionals can still reach consensus-based conclusions on minimum standards of professional ethics.

And I suspect very strongly that the engineers on this particular project would have clearly violated any standards of professional ethics we could agree on.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#147

Post by twinkletwinkle »

eonw wrote: post #104

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prov…

Not to say OK isn't a backwater, but at least the senator quoted in the article seems to get it:

"State Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, said that removes due process and the belief that a suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty ... 'If I had to err on the side of one side versus the other, I would err on the side of the Constitution'"

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#148

Post by talmand »

e40 wrote: post #129
adaml_623 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you say it's 'unamerican'? Your police force does similar things in almost every state don't they?

Because of the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing?

They aren't accusing the person of being a criminal, they are accusing the property of being obtained from alleged criminal activity. Property is not innocent until proven guilty.
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