Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#61

Post by Silhouette » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #55

jules wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comes up every single time, but it remains false. Loser pays does not mean that the loser has to pay a gigantic amount for the opponent's extremely expensive lawyers. Loser pays means that the judge determines what is a reasonable amount for the legal fees. Often the amount you have to pay for your opponent's lawyers is limited to what you paid for your own. So unless you hire extremely expensive lawyers yoursel…

> judge determines what is a reasonable amount for the legal fees That just gives financial unsupervised power to the judge, without any clear definition of involved terms. Which doesn't really sound like a good idea.

In practice, this is no different to having judges determine the amount of any damages awarded in a successful civil action or the amount of jail time or size of fine given to a convicted criminal. Making such assessments, taking into account the circumstances of each specific case, is a large part of the role of the judge in many legal systems.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#62

Post by aurizon » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

The only way you can deal with trolls is to slay them. Attribution of costs does not work. Most trolls consist of lawyers who create paper work and file it. They do not hire outside law firms at $500+ per hour - the ones their victims are forced to hire. The only tru costs they have are the file fees, which East Texas keeps low. That town is totally a parasitic town and they award wins to trolls to keep the town in cash that trickles down.

I say slay the trolls, slay the judges, slay them all - by legal means if possible. I would love to find an old Texas law that allows trial by combat with no substitutions...

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#63

Post by steven2012 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #2

People will mention the problem with patents but I see another, perhaps bigger, problem: We do not have equal access to our judicial system in the United States. If you have money, you have the power to legally hold people with less over a barrel. That exploitable inequality is poison for a well functioning society. That is the problem that needs solving.

The other side of that coin is that if you don't have a lot of money then you most likely won't get sued.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#64

Post by distances » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #55

jules wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comes up every single time, but it remains false. Loser pays does not mean that the loser has to pay a gigantic amount for the opponent's extremely expensive lawyers. Loser pays means that the judge determines what is a reasonable amount for the legal fees. Often the amount you have to pay for your opponent's lawyers is limited to what you paid for your own. So unless you hire extremely expensive lawyers yoursel…

> judge determines what is a reasonable amount for the legal fees That just gives financial unsupervised power to the judge, without any clear definition of involved terms. Which doesn't really sound like a good idea.

Somehow it seems to work quite fine. I can't say if judges here have some approximate documentation for acceptable hourly costs and work loads, or if it's decided case by case.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#65

Post by masklinn » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

tanker wrote: post #41

rhino369 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually the opposite. These patents trolls are typically very small operations suing massive corporations. They aren't rich guys screwing the little guy. It's the little guy screwing whoever he can. These little guys have too much access to the legal system. That's why it's hard to clamp down on. Nobody wants to make it so only big guys can have access to the legal system.

You identified a separate problem from the parent post rather than refuting it. #1: Big corporations can push small guys out of business by tying up their products in patent disputes. #2: Patent trolls can bleed corporations big and small while producing nothing of value. These problems are specific to the patent industry. Are there similar problems in other areas of the law? If so, we may be able to identify and try…

#1 is a problem in any area of the law with complex and/or lengthy litigation, the financial ability to run out the clock and outlast (possibly literally) and/or out-lawyer the other party is an effective and powerful one throughout.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#66

Post by tronium » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

Question: Is a lot of the backend supposed to be available through going directly to the wp-content? If you go to uniloc.com/wp-content/, there's backups, images, plugins, and even a .sql file...

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#67

Post by Drakim » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

mundo wrote: post #54

bcruddy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a right to a defense attorney in a civil case? That way you can't bring frivolous suits. That's actually exactly how the criminal courts work too. This seems too simple of a solution though, are there good reasons not to do this?

Everyone has a right to a defense attorney, just not a free one. Are you suggesting that the government (which is to say, taxpayers) fund the legal defense of everyone who gets sued in America? Including, say, OJ Simpson's civil suit?

To be fair, when somebody sues somebody else, it's not like it's a private affair, the suing party is actually asking the state to use it's power against the sued party.

It's not crazy to think that before the state should use it's power against you on behalf of another citizen, it's up to the state to ensure that this action is lawful and correct to do (which might require supplying you with an attorney).

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#68

Post by bcruddy » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

mundo wrote: post #54

bcruddy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a right to a defense attorney in a civil case? That way you can't bring frivolous suits. That's actually exactly how the criminal courts work too. This seems too simple of a solution though, are there good reasons not to do this?

Everyone has a right to a defense attorney, just not a free one. Are you suggesting that the government (which is to say, taxpayers) fund the legal defense of everyone who gets sued in America? Including, say, OJ Simpson's civil suit?

I think so. I believe he should 1000% have been appointed one in the criminal case had he not been able to pay for one and he won the criminal case before he was sued.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#69

Post by mikeash » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #53

mikeash wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loser pays means that when an ridiculous East Texas judge and jury decide that a patent troll's claim is justified, the victim will not only have to pay damages and their lawyers, but the troll's lawyers too.

To be fair, I think this mistake in the US judicial system should be fixed separately.

The overall point is that there will always be injustice, and loser pays can easily magnify it rather than reducing it. Even if you fix East Texas, there will be many others. I'm sure you can construct it such that there's a net gain, and maybe even a simple "loser always pays" system qualifies, but it's tough to figure out.

In theory, I like the idea that the winner's legal fees are just another item in play when the judge decides how to award damages. Maybe it's just a matter of calibrating that judicial sense properly. Or maybe that's just a cop-out on my part to push the thinking onto somebody else.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#70

Post by masklinn » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 4:34 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #64

golergka wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> judge determines what is a reasonable amount for the legal fees That just gives financial unsupervised power to the judge, without any clear definition of involved terms. Which doesn't really sound like a good idea.

Somehow it seems to work quite fine. I can't say if judges here have some approximate documentation for acceptable hourly costs and work loads, or if it's decided case by case.

The US has elected judges, who have to campaign, and raise campaign money. The chances are non-nil that the "rich person" has, could or will contribute to the judge's campaign funds.