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Bluetooth 5

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Re: Bluetooth 5

#51

Post by joesmo »

tblt wrote: post #45
joesmo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's accessories are already bluetooth. I'm working with a magic trackpad 2 here and it skips all the time, as expected. Magic trackpad 1 did the same. So did my previous kinesis bluetooth keyboard. So does audio. Oh right, it's OS X that can't handle bluetooth. Or RF in the case of Logitech products. Hell, they have trouble keeping wifi on. What you wish for is already here and it's already shitty, at least on OS…

My Bluetooth devices work flawlessly with my iMac, including the Magic Mouse/KB etc. What's your RF environment like?

I'd say it's the environment too, but this happens at various locations across the country consistently with multiple types of Macbooks. Also, at these same exact locations, I have no problem using bluetooth with my Android phone, further reducing the likelihood that it's the environment. Finally, all the threads about OS X bugs relating to BT/RF/WiFi problems that have been reported for years but ignored by Apple, including reports by Apple's own beta testers, are a further indication that this is an actual problem and that a lot of people are having it.

Re: Bluetooth 5

#52

Post by lowtolerance »

joesmo wrote: post #36
melling wrote: post #15

What will it take for wireless keyboards and mice to use Bluetooth? Most ship with their own custom dongle. A single port MacBook, for example, doesn't really make sense until Bluetooth devices become more popular.

Apple's accessories are already bluetooth. I'm working with a magic trackpad 2 here and it skips all the time, as expected. Magic trackpad 1 did the same. So did my previous kinesis bluetooth keyboard. So does audio. Oh right, it's OS X that can't handle bluetooth. Or RF in the case of Logitech products. Hell, they have trouble keeping wifi on. What you wish for is already here and it's already shitty, at least on OS…

OS X has great support for Bluetooth, and Bluetooth mice and keyboards do not typically have the "skipping" issue you are describing.

Re: Bluetooth 5

#53

Post by MrQuincle »

BostonEnginerd wrote: post #33
melling wrote: post #15

What will it take for wireless keyboards and mice to use Bluetooth? Most ship with their own custom dongle. A single port MacBook, for example, doesn't really make sense until Bluetooth devices become more popular.

The problem with Bluetooth for peripherals is that they on PCs, the pairing happens in user space so they're useless when you need to adjust the BIOS settings or select a different operating system from GRUB.

So, we need BIOS support for Bluetooth. :-)

Re: Bluetooth 5

#54

Post by MrQuincle »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #2

I've been really fascinated recently by whipping out my smartphone in public and using a Bluetooth LE explorer app to look at what's being advertised, and it's brilliant. We are all constantly surrounded by devices which are screaming data about themselves everywhere they go. Bluetooth 5 seems to increase the range of LE communications, but since I'm almost sure we're going to have some horrible public hack of one of…

The advantage of Bluetooth is that it runs on every smartphone out there. There is quite some incentive to have the basics right. This can not be said about chips that are not present on smartphones. I'm not saying that Bluetooth cannot be hacked, before 4.2 they didn't use proper key exchange, so e.g. you could use Ubertooth (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10573) to capture the exchange. However, with Elliptic curve Diffie–Hellman it became pretty standard. The requirements from Apple for HomeKit are even so ridiculously high that your gadgets might be safer than your bank account.

My bet is that indoor positioning is gonna be the game changer in the coming years (not robotics, not AI, not voice recognition, not yet, at least). So, I'm particularly looking forwards to see what's in store on the Bluetooth roadmap in that respect. The only thing I wish is that they would be faster in rolling out mesh functionality...

Re: Bluetooth 5

#55

Post by homero »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #2

I've been really fascinated recently by whipping out my smartphone in public and using a Bluetooth LE explorer app to look at what's being advertised, and it's brilliant. We are all constantly surrounded by devices which are screaming data about themselves everywhere they go. Bluetooth 5 seems to increase the range of LE communications, but since I'm almost sure we're going to have some horrible public hack of one of…

What app

Re: Bluetooth 5

#56

Post by jon-wood »

joesmo wrote: post #51
tblt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Bluetooth devices work flawlessly with my iMac, including the Magic Mouse/KB etc. What's your RF environment like?

I'd say it's the environment too, but this happens at various locations across the country consistently with multiple types of Macbooks. Also, at these same exact locations, I have no problem using bluetooth with my Android phone, further reducing the likelihood that it's the environment. Finally, all the threads about OS X bugs relating to BT/RF/WiFi problems that have been reported for years but ignored by Apple, i…

I've had issues with a non-bluetooth wireless keyboard when plugging the receiver into my laptop directly which go away when it's connected via a USB hub a little distance away, which makes me think the laptop itself is causing interference.

Re: Bluetooth 5

#57

Post by lm2s »

MBCook wrote: post #38

Announced a week before the Apple event. I wonder....

I doubt it, the specification is still being finalized. Only after that will the chipmakers begin their process.

Re: Bluetooth 5

#58

Post by joesmo »

lowtolerance wrote: post #52
joesmo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's accessories are already bluetooth. I'm working with a magic trackpad 2 here and it skips all the time, as expected. Magic trackpad 1 did the same. So did my previous kinesis bluetooth keyboard. So does audio. Oh right, it's OS X that can't handle bluetooth. Or RF in the case of Logitech products. Hell, they have trouble keeping wifi on. What you wish for is already here and it's already shitty, at least on OS…

OS X has great support for Bluetooth, and Bluetooth mice and keyboards do not typically have the "skipping" issue you are describing.

The "it works for most people so we won't bother acknowledging or fixing it" defense is indeed Apple's position on this, but when you have a significant number of people experiencing this for multiple years (at least 5) on multiple OS versions on a multi-thousand dollar machine, it brings to question the quality of said machine. The problem is so bad, there's software out there to compensate for it (http://smoothmouse.com/) which obviously is a band aid that only works for some.

So no, it's not a defensible position as it renders the $3000 machine useless, similarly to how a $3000 car whose steering wheel steers randomly would render it useless.

Re: Bluetooth 5

#59

Post by abritinthebay »

joesmo wrote: post #36
melling wrote: post #15

What will it take for wireless keyboards and mice to use Bluetooth? Most ship with their own custom dongle. A single port MacBook, for example, doesn't really make sense until Bluetooth devices become more popular.

Apple's accessories are already bluetooth. I'm working with a magic trackpad 2 here and it skips all the time, as expected. Magic trackpad 1 did the same. So did my previous kinesis bluetooth keyboard. So does audio. Oh right, it's OS X that can't handle bluetooth. Or RF in the case of Logitech products. Hell, they have trouble keeping wifi on. What you wish for is already here and it's already shitty, at least on OS…

> it's OS X that can't handle bluetooth

This is laughable wrong. You clearly have either a) issues with your peripherals or b) an incredibly saturated wireless signal environment.

OSX is practically the gold standard of BT integration - it's seamless for almost every application.

Re: Bluetooth 5

#60

Post by digi_owl »

MrQuincle wrote: post #54
matthewmacleod wrote: post #2

I've been really fascinated recently by whipping out my smartphone in public and using a Bluetooth LE explorer app to look at what's being advertised, and it's brilliant. We are all constantly surrounded by devices which are screaming data about themselves everywhere they go. Bluetooth 5 seems to increase the range of LE communications, but since I'm almost sure we're going to have some horrible public hack of one of…

The advantage of Bluetooth is that it runs on every smartphone out there. There is quite some incentive to have the basics right. This can not be said about chips that are not present on smartphones. I'm not saying that Bluetooth cannot be hacked, before 4.2 they didn't use proper key exchange, so e.g. you could use Ubertooth ( https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10573 ) to capture the exchange. However, with Elliptic…

Lets keep in mind that bluetooth, unlike wifi, has made use of channel hopping from day one.

Ubertooth had to be custom built to sniff bluetooth traffic, while just about any old dongle will do for wifi.

And IMO, a big advantage with bluetooth is that it has profiles for common usage scenarios. Meaning that you have defined standards for how to do things like file transfers over bluetooth, while it is wild west when it comes to wifi.

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