Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#31

Post by mikeash » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #6

clavalle wrote: post #2

People will mention the problem with patents but I see another, perhaps bigger, problem: We do not have equal access to our judicial system in the United States. If you have money, you have the power to legally hold people with less over a barrel. That exploitable inequality is poison for a well functioning society. That is the problem that needs solving.

"Loser pays" would go a long way, I think. Not being that familiar with the US system, what's the reasoning not to have this?

Loser pays means that when an ridiculous East Texas judge and jury decide that a patent troll's claim is justified, the victim will not only have to pay damages and their lawyers, but the troll's lawyers too.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#32

Post by codeflo » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #12

distances wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Loser pays" would go a long way, I think. Not being that familiar with the US system, what's the reasoning not to have this?

If loser pays, poor people would be discouraged from even attempting to sue rich people. Even if the poor person has a legitimate claim, there is a small probability that the rich person will win with their superior lawyers and the poor person will be bankrupted by the legal fees. Since they will know that from the beginning, they won't sue in the first place.

A small probability of a high (but known) fee is something that can in principle be insured against, no?

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#33

Post by mikeash » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

mfoy_ wrote: post #26

InvisibleCities wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The gist behind this case is that the Judge's son owns patent law firm in East Texas where they often represent both sides. Isn't this a blatant conflict of interest? If this isn't grounds for disbarment, what is?

Maybe the firm doesn't represent both sides simultaneously. Maybe they usually represent the patent troll, but if someone needs a patent troll defense lawyer they'll do that too. Basically, as long as patent litigation is in town, business is good.

That helps, but the judge working cases his son's law firm also works is pretty bad too.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#34

Post by ogreveins » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #6

clavalle wrote: post #2

People will mention the problem with patents but I see another, perhaps bigger, problem: We do not have equal access to our judicial system in the United States. If you have money, you have the power to legally hold people with less over a barrel. That exploitable inequality is poison for a well functioning society. That is the problem that needs solving.

"Loser pays" would go a long way, I think. Not being that familiar with the US system, what's the reasoning not to have this?

As long as it's no more than the price of the cheaper legal team this method would work. That way poorer people who have been wronged are not heavily deterred from filing suit.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#35

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #2

People will mention the problem with patents but I see another, perhaps bigger, problem: We do not have equal access to our judicial system in the United States. If you have money, you have the power to legally hold people with less over a barrel. That exploitable inequality is poison for a well functioning society. That is the problem that needs solving.

It's actually the opposite. These patents trolls are typically very small operations suing massive corporations. They aren't rich guys screwing the little guy. It's the little guy screwing whoever he can.

These little guys have too much access to the legal system.

That's why it's hard to clamp down on. Nobody wants to make it so only big guys can have access to the legal system.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#36

Post by HillaryBriss » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #35

clavalle wrote: post #2

People will mention the problem with patents but I see another, perhaps bigger, problem: We do not have equal access to our judicial system in the United States. If you have money, you have the power to legally hold people with less over a barrel. That exploitable inequality is poison for a well functioning society. That is the problem that needs solving.

It's actually the opposite. These patents trolls are typically very small operations suing massive corporations. They aren't rich guys screwing the little guy. It's the little guy screwing whoever he can. These little guys have too much access to the legal system. That's why it's hard to clamp down on. Nobody wants to make it so only big guys can have access to the legal system.

With the added wrinkle in this particular case that the patent troll is also suing a bunch of little guys who decided to use Google Play Store.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#37

Post by jules » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

CameronBanga wrote: post #22

Claudus wrote: post #7

Judge Davis retired May 15, 2015 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Davis_(judge)

Thank God, all of this should be coming to an end any day now.

It won't though. The supply of people willing to sell their soul to make easy money contains more than one person.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#38

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #5

Couldn't Google offer defense in such cases for its users? Every case is the same so it shouldn't even be that expensive (I guess, IANAL), and it would discourage future cases because the troll would know he will have to fight against Google.

Yea they could in multiple ways. They could sue to the troll for a declaratory judgement of invalidity and non infringement. Or they just indemnify their app stor developers for any patent liability caused by using their product.

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#39

Post by tommoor » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:57 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #5

Couldn't Google offer defense in such cases for its users? Every case is the same so it shouldn't even be that expensive (I guess, IANAL), and it would discourage future cases because the troll would know he will have to fight against Google.

Good guy Google should definitely be stepping in here

Re: Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video]

#40

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

HillaryBriss wrote: post #36

rhino369 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually the opposite. These patents trolls are typically very small operations suing massive corporations. They aren't rich guys screwing the little guy. It's the little guy screwing whoever he can. These little guys have too much access to the legal system. That's why it's hard to clamp down on. Nobody wants to make it so only big guys can have access to the legal system.

With the added wrinkle in this particular case that the patent troll is also suing a bunch of little guys who decided to use Google Play Store.

Sounds like they are suing whoever they can including Minecraft which isn't a small fish.

There is a form of patent trolling that only goes after small guys. But they'd avoid actually litigating the patent and just push a settlement. They'd never take it to trial because little guys can't pay out enough to justify the cost of a patent trial. That form is basically extortion. They ask for a small sum of money to just go away.