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Mastering Programming: An Outline

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Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#71

Post by Teeboo »

EDIT: Just reviewed your Twitter. It's 2000 tweets of snark and criticism of everything you come across - GoT, other coders, Agile, politics. I doubt we will get anywhere constructive on this thread but my original post remains below.

Original post >>

"Doesn't give him the chops or credibility to tell others how to program or solve problems."

...that cannot be serious. Am actually smiling at that. Also laughing at the idea that modern coders think they have nothing to learn from Grady Booch.

Plinkplonk you are absolutely someone I would never want on my team or contributing to a product I was involved in. Aggressive, combative and dismissive of the precedents that laid the foundations for modern software engineering. You need to mature (my opinion). Your post has not painted you in a flattering light.

But feel free to prove me wrong - in your eyes what DOES give someone the chops to support others with engineering advice? What do they need to have accomplished?

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#72

Post by plinkplonk »

Teeboo wrote: post #71

EDIT: Just reviewed your Twitter. It's 2000 tweets of snark and criticism of everything you come across - GoT, other coders, Agile, politics. I doubt we will get anywhere constructive on this thread but my original post remains below. Original post >> "Doesn't give him the chops or credibility to tell others how to program or solve problems." ...that cannot be serious. Am actually smiling at that. Also laughing at th…

If someone has built significant cutting edge software and/or has proven himself to be a 1 percent engineer, I'll gladly listen to her on matters of engineering. That doesn't make her an expert on say designing space craft.

The point is Booch hasn't written any cutting edge software. He just sold methodology (and books and consulting). Which makes him an expert in selling books and consulting.

I don't want agile gurus/methodology vendors telling me how to do programming. I'll gladly listen to their advice on how to build a career around a methodology. Just a personal preference.

I mean if I wanted to know how to write a 3d game engine, I'll listen to John Carmack or Tim Sweeney, not a methodology consultant. If I wanted advice on investing, I'd listen to someone who has proven chops as an investor - say Warren Buffet.

again, just my personal preference.

I'll ignore the personal attacks and your comments on my twitter account etc, which has nothing to do with my comments here and is borderline stalker behavior.

Whatever floats your boat. All good. This is the internet

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#73

Post by Teeboo »

plinkplonk wrote: post #72
Teeboo wrote: post #71

EDIT: Just reviewed your Twitter. It's 2000 tweets of snark and criticism of everything you come across - GoT, other coders, Agile, politics. I doubt we will get anywhere constructive on this thread but my original post remains below. Original post >> "Doesn't give him the chops or credibility to tell others how to program or solve problems." ...that cannot be serious. Am actually smiling at that. Also laughing at th…

If someone has built significant cutting edge software and/or has proven himself to be a 1 percent engineer, I'll gladly listen to her on matters of engineering . That doesn't make her an expert on say designing space craft. The point is Booch hasn't written any cutting edge software. He just sold methodology (and books and consulting). Which makes him an expert in selling books and consulting. I don't want agile gur…

Not borderline stalker; was just interested in your experience. Was hoping you would blow me away with cutting edge engineering you speak about. shrug

Agile vendors don't tell you how to do your job. They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others.

Not surprised you struggle with the concept given your tone. Clearly not a growth mindset and fixated only on your technology.

Nice summary of Booch by the way, neatly side stepping his programming experience and Master's in electrical engineering or his work supporting design patterns. eyeroll

The hate is strong in you.

I would also add, with a little glee, Agile vendors are not going anywhere and you will be listening to them for a long time to come; you know why? Your boss listens to them. Don't be bitter at consultants, the game chose them.

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#74

Post by jondubois »

ObeyTheGuts wrote: post #65
jondubois wrote: post #35

This article should be called 'Mastering large-scale team programming'. In reality there is no single correct approach to programming. All programmers/engineers/developers have different specializations. Some developers are really good at getting an MVP out the door quickly but their code may not quite work at scale. Others are good at working in large teams on large projects, others work better alone or in small tea…

Absolutely disagree with you, slicing problems to small and focusing one at a time and all other good points is a must if u want to be good at any kind of programming and even more even other skills outside programming.

Not if you have a hard deadline and your client is launching a massive advertising campaign for your product in a few hours. Also if your project is part of a promotional campaign, it will be up for a few months and then the whole thing will be torn down forever - You don't want to over-engineer it.

I only worked briefly in the digital agency space, it wasn't my thing. My workflow very much adheres to the points described in the article but I wouldn't say that they necessarily reflect all that it means to be a 'Master programmer'.

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#75

Post by plinkplonk »

Teeboo wrote: post #73
plinkplonk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone has built significant cutting edge software and/or has proven himself to be a 1 percent engineer, I'll gladly listen to her on matters of engineering . That doesn't make her an expert on say designing space craft. The point is Booch hasn't written any cutting edge software. He just sold methodology (and books and consulting). Which makes him an expert in selling books and consulting. I don't want agile gur…

Not borderline stalker; was just interested in your experience. Was hoping you would blow me away with cutting edge engineering you speak about. shrug Agile vendors don't tell you how to do your job. They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others. Not surprised you struggle with the concept given your tone. Clearly not a growth mindset and fixated o…

" They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others."

These guys have no special expertise in this either. They haven't (mostly) worked on high performance programming teams or led successful companies or launched killer products. But if you give them a chance they'll try to sell you 'methodologies' on all these and more.

They make their living selling ill thought out ideas to clueless middle managers. What makes them experts in "how your work fits into a whole?"

Lol getting a masters in electrical engineering and having written forgotten books on design patterns makes you an expert in how to 'master programming' and work in high performance teams? News to me!

Ignoring your personal attacks as usual. Heh.

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#76

Post by Teeboo »

plinkplonk wrote: post #75
Teeboo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not borderline stalker; was just interested in your experience. Was hoping you would blow me away with cutting edge engineering you speak about. shrug Agile vendors don't tell you how to do your job. They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others. Not surprised you struggle with the concept given your tone. Clearly not a growth mindset and fixated o…

" They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others." These guys have no special expertise in this either. They haven't (mostly) worked on high performance programming teams or led successful companies or launched killer products. But if you give them a chance they'll try to sell you 'methodologies' on all these and more. They make their living selling…

You understand Booch did not write the master programming list referenced by the OP. (No doubt you will edit to remove that erroneous reference but shrug)

Saying Kent Beck, Ken Schwaber, Jeff Sutherland etc has not led successful companies or worked in high performance programming teams he he he. That's class.

I hope this post is immortalised :-D

So if Agile is ill-thought out, what is not ill-thought out? By all means, you have the stage...

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#77

Post by Teeboo »

plinkplonk wrote: post #72
Teeboo wrote: post #71

EDIT: Just reviewed your Twitter. It's 2000 tweets of snark and criticism of everything you come across - GoT, other coders, Agile, politics. I doubt we will get anywhere constructive on this thread but my original post remains below. Original post >> "Doesn't give him the chops or credibility to tell others how to program or solve problems." ...that cannot be serious. Am actually smiling at that. Also laughing at th…

If someone has built significant cutting edge software and/or has proven himself to be a 1 percent engineer, I'll gladly listen to her on matters of engineering . That doesn't make her an expert on say designing space craft. The point is Booch hasn't written any cutting edge software. He just sold methodology (and books and consulting). Which makes him an expert in selling books and consulting. I don't want agile gur…

I was intrigued by your references to those individuals specifically so I did a quick Google and found your fire and brimstone blog post where you reference Carmack and Sweeney liberally.

http://pindancing.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/agile-consultancy-s...

However, you also, worryingly, faked 3 comments at the bottom of your own blog post, one pretending to be a Scrum Master saying they are taking the money. They are time stamped and clearly written by you.

That's not normal behaviour to be honest.

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#78

Post by plinkplonk »

Teeboo wrote: post #77
plinkplonk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone has built significant cutting edge software and/or has proven himself to be a 1 percent engineer, I'll gladly listen to her on matters of engineering . That doesn't make her an expert on say designing space craft. The point is Booch hasn't written any cutting edge software. He just sold methodology (and books and consulting). Which makes him an expert in selling books and consulting. I don't want agile gur…

I was intrigued by your references to those individuals specifically so I did a quick Google and found your fire and brimstone blog post where you reference Carmack and Sweeney liberally. http://pindancing.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/agile-consultancy-s... However, you also, worryingly, faked 3 comments at the bottom of your own blog post, one pretending to be a Scrum Master saying they are taking the money. They are time…

>However, you also, worryingly, faked 3 comments at the bottom of your own blog post, one pretending to be a Scrum Master saying they are taking the money. They are time stamped and clearly written by you.

WTF?

you spend your time digging up my old blog posts from years ago, accuse me of faking comments on my own blog post, (lol what? evidence? or are you just high and imagining things?) and then call my behavior abnormal?

Heh. Whatever man. This is getting creepy.

I've had an anti-agile point of view [1] for a long time now. so you went hunting and found a blog post which I wrote years ago elucidating that view. So what? This thread is getting meaningless and you are beginning to creep me out with this behavior and personal attacks, so I'll exit this too-long thread and leave the floor to you.

Cheers.

[1] One more anti agile post from my archives. More grist for your mill http://ravimohan.blogspot.in/2007/04/learning-from-sudoku-so... .

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#79

Post by Teeboo »

plinkplonk wrote: post #78
Teeboo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was intrigued by your references to those individuals specifically so I did a quick Google and found your fire and brimstone blog post where you reference Carmack and Sweeney liberally. http://pindancing.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/agile-consultancy-s... However, you also, worryingly, faked 3 comments at the bottom of your own blog post, one pretending to be a Scrum Master saying they are taking the money. They are time…

>However, you also, worryingly, faked 3 comments at the bottom of your own blog post, one pretending to be a Scrum Master saying they are taking the money. They are time stamped and clearly written by you. WTF? you spend your time digging up my old blog posts from years ago, accuse me of faking comments on my own blog post, (lol what? evidence? or are you just high and imagining things?) and then call my behavior abn…

I simply searched for the people you referenced and the word Agile. I had no idea your blog would be ranking first page for anti-agile rants.

You find it creepy that you list your twitter profile and you publish an online blog and people then read your Twitter and online blog?

I def believe and am willing to bet a month's salary that you faked those blog comments. I am more sure of it than my own name. We both know you did. It's transparent.

Re: Mastering Programming: An Outline

#80

Post by delta1 »

sleepychu wrote: post #44

My top piece of advice: Programs behave predictably, when something impossible is happening it's because one of your assumptions is wrong. When that happens you'll find the bug the moment you start testing your full set of assumptions. For some reason, even though this is invariably true, my friends at school didn't appreciate "I can't understand why I'm seeing this weird behaviour", "One of your assumptions is wrong…

I like this point of view and generally phrase it to myself and colleagues as "Debugging is the process of verifying your assumptions."
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