No, this is not normal. You should quit.
Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
11–20 of 68 posts
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#12Every situation is unique and every person is different. But I share my thoughts. - The right place is the one that helps you achieve your life goals. It sounds like you may be in the wrong place but that doesn't mean you should quit just yet. - Its probably a good time to start making friends at other companies. Its fine if its casual. You just need to start building your network. If you do this right you may never…
x10 this:
> - Keep making your seniors look good. You don't want to be a threat to them. If their career advances they will take you with them. You want every to feel that they are more likely to succeed with you around.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#13Find another job, but don't quit, as it makes salary negotiation much harder. Do the interviews in the background. Also if some engineer you worked with has left the company, ask him to help find job for you.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#14Just copy paste this to the CEO and see what happens. (minus the self-deprecation)
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#15> I'm very unhappy at my company
> Am I expecting too much?
> Is this just how software engineering is?
> my own unrealistic expectations
> I generally don't get any response whatsoever
> it would at least be nice to get some feedback, and I never get any
> I just can't seem to connect with anyone at work
> there might not be enough interest to warrant having such meetings
> you can do what is essentially bad work and still get paid
> the response has basically been "That must be frustrating"
> I'm wondering whether this is due to the company
All company outside a few small areas is exactly like this, the exceptions being:
* Startups
* Open-source
There is nothing wrong with this company. This is how pretty much all companies are. This kind of environment is suitable for 85% of software engineers. They like it that way, and they want it that way. Companies do not want to be dependent on heroics. They want a predictable process.
> I spend a large part of my weekends writing code for prototypes and projects
* Be on the outlook for a sufficently-funded startup where you could be the CTO or technical co-founder
* Join an open source project
Do not talk about this to other people in the company. In the meanwhile, until you have landed your new role, avoid disturbing other people, or make them feel inadequate. Companies fundamentally cannot use people like you. It is contrary to their desire to keep things predictable, both good and bad things.
By the way, personality-wise, I am pretty much like you. I am a co-founder in 3 startups and 2 open-source projects. It may be annoying for you that you are not suitable for working in most companies around, but at the same time, if you find the right place to work at, you will have much, much more fun and make much, much more money than in a "normal" job.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#16Quit, join a small company. I did five long years at a multinational megacorp without realizing that life could be better. It was like prison for programmers. When I finally quit to be employee #5 at a bootstrapped startup it was a revelation. After I had been at the startup for a month it still didn't feel real - it felt like I was on vacation from my previous job. It took a long time for it to sink in that I didn't have to go back. Ever!
It's possible to enjoy work! Don't make my mistake and waste years in an environment you hate - I should have left after 3 months instead of 5 years. I will never work for a large corporation again.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#17Every place is different but what you are experiencing sounds somewhat typical of a large organization. It sounds like you would be much happier somewhere smaller! Small startups tend to have the opposite sorts of problems, where each person needs to take on lots of responsibility but consequently everyone gets to have a big impact on the company and product. And as long as they practice code reviews for all changes you're guaranteed to get feedback even if sometimes that feedback is just "that's gross, don't do that". Anyway at a smaller startup it should be way less likely for there to be the kind of disconnect between dev and management as you are describing.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#18A couple random thoughts:
You've freelanced before, you're not happy with your current job, so consider getting back into that, at least on the side.
3 seniors quitting in a year does sound a bit like a red flag. Hopefully you're keeping in contact with them? Maybe you can find out why they left and where they went (and whether you can come along).
It's often unnecessarily large and undocumented. Sorry.
Consider running your ideas by some higher-ups before you spend your weekends on them. If they're not interested, maybe they could help you figure out things to work on that would get traction. This might be one of those trite old things where you make the person belivee it's their own good idea, but even then they'll at least know you were the one to implement it.
Things like code quality guidelines and interview processes involve some subjectivity- they're commendable things to want to improve but it may not be as simple as "boom, now it's better."
Not everyone loves talking about software for the sake of software. Maybe connect over biking or frisbee or movies or something. Also, "software" is a vast, vast space of topics. If someone doesn't happen to be in the right frame of mind when you bring up some otherwise-interesting topic, you probably will get blank stares. If you do want to chat about software, find a way to ask people about something you know they're working on.
I do hate the getting-things-done-in-meetings approach. You could try short-circuiting them with emails like "Here's problem X, here's my solution Y, please email me thoughts otherwise I'll go ahead and implemnt it." (YMMV)
In the end, though, it does sound like you're looking to leave. So, keep a list of your accomplishments (even if nobody there appreciates them), the responsibilites you have, positive feedback you've gotten, and things you've learned. Brush up your resume and look around. If you're financially stable, maybe just bail and go back to freelancing. Or, if you're feeling gutsy, maybe apply for a Sr role at your current place- that might be a way to gain some recognition.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#19It seems to me like you try to make your job better, and outshine on all areas, but you are not trying to do it in a corporate way.
Your bosses only care for 2 things, and those things are the only things that you can use to get their attention and implement change.
1) Does the change make more money You have to show them, prove them that the change you try to implement will make more money down the hill. Will it attract more customers, will it make customers spend even more, how can you quantify this idea into money.
2) Does the change save money spent If you can prove them that the change will save them money that they are currently losing, then you have to show them how. Show statistics, show numbers.
This is the only thing that works with almost any corporate company and almost every work occupation that I have seen, talked to with other people, and learned all the way.
You either make more money, or you save money, everything else noone cares about.
Especially as a developer, you might know that changing a codebase MIGHT be easier down the road, but unless it is quantifiable by numbers and money, noone cares.
Re: Ask HN: Am I expecting too much?
#20As someone said, it's time to move on but take it easy. Try to reduce your "extra working hours", at least try to get enough free time and make sure weekends "are weekends". You need time for you.
Now it's time to start thinking "what would you like to do next" and invest some time in a daily basis looking for companies and positions that you will feel motivated to apply. That research and process may take some time.
Ah, don't get into the "Engineer -> Senior Engineer -> Manager" thinking, titles are not important, what really matters is what you do and how much you enjoy it. If you enjoy what you do, you will succeed.