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If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

bbc.co.uk

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Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#171

Post by informatimago »

shortsightedsid wrote: post #147
Udo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is projected to be one of the twelve countries who together will account for 50% of the world's population growth until 2050, at which point it's assumed India will host 1.7 billion humans. Asia will in total have gone from 4.3 to 5.2 billions, which is by far not as dramatic as the projected growth of Africa from 1.1 billion now to 2.5 billion in 2050. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

> Indian people I have talked to are enthusiastic about the prospect of edging out China in terms of future economy, and population size is seen as the primary means of achieving that. Huh? The problem with that statement is the sample size. Even if you talked to every Indian person you know (presumably anywhere between 100 and 10000), it will be less than 0.001% of the total population of India. Edit: Grammer.

Good, now edit your spelling too!

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#172

Post by ck2 »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #138
ck2 wrote: post #34

This is a crazy thought but the government or charities could award a random lottery to good-Samaritans? Then suddenly everyone will want to help. The only problem is this will also cause fake incidents for fraud purposes. Or people who purposely cause accidents to "help". But if they can solve that issue, might work?

how come america or europe doesn't need a lottery.

Hundreds if not thousands of people will drive by you broken down on the road in the USA until maybe one will stop.

I've even had cops drive by me broken down, I was quite incredulous (this was before cellphones when you could call for help).

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#173

Post by nashashmi »

gohrt wrote: post #164
nashashmi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, hospitals and doctors won't admit. A quick story in Pakistan: A brain surgeon had a lot of success doing brain surgeries and received much fame, award, and status worldwide, and even though he started out modestly helping the poor and less fortunate, fame and greed got to him, and he became more demanding in terms of payment. Well, a man brought in a young individual involved in a car accident who had received…

Are you claiming this story is true? Was this story ever documented? It has all the looks of an "urban legend"

I know it sounds that way especially with the last line, and I have been trying to find some documentation to back it up, but no luck. However, the story is true. The story is known with relative popularity in Pakistan including the name of the doctor, which escapes my mind.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#174

Post by crimsonalucard »

burfog wrote: post #155
crimsonalucard wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the above case is more of a symptom of the problem rather than what causes the problem itself. Someone who helps is implicated as guilty because being indifferent and lacking morals is expected behavior, while 'helping' is considered highly abnormal and therefore the action is suspect. From personal experience I do not believe this is the real reason for why a family is left dying on the road. When I travel to ce…

"It would be a very touchy subject though as the results of the study will implicate some cultures as more 'evil' than others." You don't say? There is a mighty good chance it is even worse: this is a brain trait, and we know that brain traits are at least partially due to DNA. Anybody who dares to research this one is completely nuts, with or without tenure.

I disagree. I believe there is higher chance that the trait is cultural. But this of course is just derived from my anecdotal observations of human nature.

>Anybody who dares to research this one is completely nuts, with or without tenure.

What is interesting though is that in the field of anthropology there is total awareness of a certain fact. Throughout all ancient and historical human cultures, women have consistently been to certain degrees less privileged and more subservient to men. There is no definitive reason why this is the case, however biological imperative has not yet been ruled out. It's "nuts" but this is a case where political correctness has not yet suppressed what is otherwise a scientific observation.

More interesting is that I was made aware of this fact by an anthropology professor at UCLA. She specifically believed that it was biological. She thought that women in general do not want to be leaders. (keyword: She)

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#175

Post by pjlegato »

sonink wrote: post #131
po wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that, the incentives are such that it's better to kill than maim: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2... (although this is apparently in question: http://www.snopes.com/chinese-drivers-kill-pedestrians/ ) This is one of those subjects where people like to put moral consequences on the bystanders when it's the rules and larger structures of the society that matter. Driving in I…

Driving in India is only insane to westerners. I have been driving in India for a decade and I dont find it hard at all. Driving in the US though is one of the most stressfull things for me. Part of the stress in US is because of the different side driving, but also a lot because I have to keep in mind a TON of rules - lane markers, speed limits, lane changing etc.- and everyone moves in super high speed so any mista…

The whole article is full of interviews with Indians who are all complaining about how extremely dangerous it is to drive in India.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#176

Post by ars »

mikeash wrote: post #42
shripadk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm this. Hospitals don't treat unless the injured person's relative(s) sign legal papers. The general rule of thumb in India is that one should always carry at least an ID proof (better yet an insurance policy) so that in case of an accident the hospital can contact the relative.

This is what a true free-market health care system looks like. I always wonder about this when I see people arguing against socialized medicine. Should accident victims be left to die like this? Any answer besides "yes" implies some sort of government intervention. In the US, since 1986, ERs must treat everyone. This basically gave us a really bizarre socialized medicine system with horribly inefficient funding and p…

It used to be that charitable societies setup funds within hospitals to pay for such people.

If they were able to bill insurance, or the person, later, then the fund would be replenished.

So it is possible to say "yes" and not have government involved.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#177

Post by pjlegato »

mschuster91 wrote: post #119
simula67 wrote: post #45

> legal proceedings can be notoriously protracted in India This is the root of so much evil in India. It is probably the largest issue facing this country. Every citizen should have a fundamental right to a speedy resolution to their grievances.

To be fair, it's not just India that faces this problem. Italy, and to a lesser extent France, are kept back in economic development due to extremely long (civil) legal proceedings - in fact, Berlusconi and his crooks abused this multiple times to STFO of jail time. In Germany, it's mostly the criminal justice system that suffers from massive case overload - it takes sometimes over a year to get the first trial in a…

"Third world country" is not shorthand for "poor, backwards land."

It means a country that was not aligned with either the United States (first world) or the Soviet Union (second world) during the Cold War.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#178

Post by petemc_ »

spacecop wrote: post #158
djsumdog wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact, the train ticketing systems in India and China using Apache Geode for their backend. Anyway, back to the point, I agree with you. Indian's population situation is really insane. Last time I was in India was in 1998 and the traffic situation was totally insane. All the red lights had "relax" written on them in English in an attempt to calm drivers down. You'd think the 2nd most populated country in the world…

What is wrong with Apache Geode?

How does pointing out a systems use imply something wrong with it?

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#179

Post by jcslzr »

jargnar wrote: post #93

A very real, slightly non-obvious problem is the size of the Indian population itself. There are so many people here that, competition is a stronger emotion than community. To an extent that sometimes it is considered normal to put someone else at risk for your benefit, while self-empathizing along the lines of "Hey, if I don't do it, someone else will stamp on that person to move ahead in life." Competition is every…

> competition is a stronger emotion than community.

yep i guess this is a rule: as population increase, humanity decrease

that is why is really cool to live in small towns

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#180

Post by hrnnnnnn »

vidarh wrote: post #129
hrnnnnnn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called the Bystander Effect, and the most disturbing thing about it is that its strength is in proportion to the number of people present. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

My favourite description of dealing with this is from Cialdini's Influence, where he describes getting in a car accident, and worrying about the bystander effect as people drove past without stopping, and how he applied his knowledge about it to counter the effect. The most important aspect is basically that your chances of getting help goes up dramatically if you address specific people and ask for specific action (…

I have observed exactly this in team group chats at work, where addressing the group results in being ignored, but didn't make the link until you brought up that car accident example.
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