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This is not a place of honor

wipp.energy.gov

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Re: This is not a place of honor

#251

Post by scrollbar »

orbitingpluto wrote: post #105

I'm never understood this marker system. Graves have been marked in a threatening manner so that they would not be plundered. It doesn't work. The point is to hide the waste. The system should be designed to progressively unveil warnings if some future man starts digging. Otherwise, you're just asking for them to dig it up. Another thing not mentioned is to design the container so that anyone who plans to excavate wi…

Interesting discussion at the tail end of the document:

(a) We have all become very marker-prone, but shouldn't we nevertheless admit that, in the end, despite all we try to do, the most effective "marker" for any intruders will be a relatively limited amount of sickness and death caused by the radioactive waste? In other words, it is largely a self-correcting process if anyone intrudes without appropriate precautions, and it seems unlikely that intrusion on such buried waste would lead to large-scale disasters. An analysis of the likely number of deaths over 10,000 years due to inadvertent intrusion should be conducted. This cost should be weighted against that of the marker system.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#252

Post by jean- »

2bitencryption wrote: post #24
colanderman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… your basement was plastered with iconographic warnings against entering due to interminable life-ending substances contained within? … did you enter ?

>This place is not a place of honor. >No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. >Nothing valued is here. "But I just need to use the laundry machines." >...Fine.

Brilliant. This just reads like a conversation with Death in a Terry Pratchett novel.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#253

Post by ctdonath »

Zikes wrote: post #229
mhurron wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would appear that it has resisted recovery because there's probably nothing there.

A most clever ruse, to be sure.

To what end? Tremendous effort for no purpose but to intrigue? Kinda like building an enormous underground labyrinth then filling it with sand, just to get a giggle at how much people will do (long after you're dead) to find the presumed hidden treasure that isn't there.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#254

Post by rev_bird »

Terr_ wrote: post #74
santoshalper wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're pretty special, at least in the context of this planet. Science tells us that we are by far the most intelligent creatures to live on Earth in its observable history, and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. In the very least, we are the only creatures to inhabit Earth, that if we become extinct, it is somewhat likely that we are both the victim and the perpetrator.

> and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. The first oxygen-excreting algae may have a prior claim...

I'm not sure this is relevant. I mean, yes, they most certainly changed the planet itself, but it wasn't really to benefit themselves, was it? We build skyscrapers and Howitzers for intentional purposes, not because we excrete them.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#255

Post by rev_bird »

ageofwant wrote: post #76
santoshalper wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're pretty special, at least in the context of this planet. Science tells us that we are by far the most intelligent creatures to live on Earth in its observable history, and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. In the very least, we are the only creatures to inhabit Earth, that if we become extinct, it is somewhat likely that we are both the victim and the perpetrator.

Intelligence is not a indicator of survivability, and if it somehow was, we found ourselves on the completely wrong side of the argument. How many other planet-altering intelligent species do you see around you ? Do you think that is a good indicator of survivability ?

This seems fallacious, but I can't put my finger on how. Yes, there is currently a lack of "planet-altering intelligent species," but, as far as we can tell, there has always been a lack of planet-altering intelligent species. We don't have any evidence of a being with human-level capabilities than then died out.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#256

Post by rev_bird »

Hondor wrote: post #112
ProAm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we've only been relevant for ~7,000 and if we do not make the Earth inhospitable ourselves in the next 10k years then the chances of a cataclysmic event are ever increasing to assist us. 99.9% of all animals ever to exist on the Earth are extinct, we're not that special.

We're hoping to start a colony on Mars. How could we possibly make Earth even remotely as inhospitable as Mars? Do you expect us to remove all the oceans' water? Remove most of the oxygen from the atmosphere? Kill all plants? I don't think we have much hope of making Earth inhospitable to us even if we tried. Perhaps we somehow contaminate it all with nuclear waste. Even then, there'll be safety underground for long…

"Keep Earth hospitable" and "Colonize Mars" have very different goals, though. It would likely be humanity's crowning achievement to put a permanent outpost on another planet, but it would be, what, 15 people maybe? The other planet we're talking about has to support at least 7 billion.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#257

Post by SCHiM »

pqhwan wrote: post #233

I find the "human comes near box with radioactive sign/sign is on human now/human sick" drawing to be a pretty universal warning sign. No matter how many years we're aiming for the message to survive, as long as we're warning against humans, wouldn't using the human form somehow in the message be the best way? Isn't drawing narratives with bipedal stick figures something we've had since the dawn of humanity?

But reading from left to right/top to bottom is definitely not universal. How will you make sure that the figures are read in the correct order? Perhaps a future culture will read the signs to mean that they should bring old and dying people to the stone to resurrect them?

Re: This is not a place of honor

#258

Post by JoeDaDude »

This team should collaborate with the makers of the Clock of the Long Now (http://longnow.org/clock/), another device intended to last thousands of years. There is a discussion of their research into various methods pursued by different cultures over the centuries to pursue similar goals, see video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nphxoUxSvgY

Re: This is not a place of honor

#259

Post by golfer »

SCHiM wrote: post #257
pqhwan wrote: post #233

I find the "human comes near box with radioactive sign/sign is on human now/human sick" drawing to be a pretty universal warning sign. No matter how many years we're aiming for the message to survive, as long as we're warning against humans, wouldn't using the human form somehow in the message be the best way? Isn't drawing narratives with bipedal stick figures something we've had since the dawn of humanity?

But reading from left to right/top to bottom is definitely not universal. How will you make sure that the figures are read in the correct order? Perhaps a future culture will read the signs to mean that they should bring old and dying people to the stone to resurrect them?

Maybe arrows would help with the designated order of the frames.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#260

Post by feralmoan »

jcl wrote: post #247
korethr wrote: post #65

Honestly, reading this, I kept thinking to myself, "Man, this is just waiting to be turned into science fiction short story." It could go in different directions, future humans discover such a site, humans discover an alien analogue of such a site on $planet, aliens discover such a site crafted by humans on $planet, etc. Either way, there's potential for a good story there.

It's actually not that dissimilar from the plot of "Alien". Or "Prometheus". Or "At the Mountains of Madness".

Or 'The Mummy', loosely based on the legendary Curse of the Pharaohs
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