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This is not a place of honor

wipp.energy.gov

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Re: This is not a place of honor

#221

Post by zeveb »

labster wrote: post #23

It's really interesting to me to see architecture used for its typical antithesis. It is typically used to bring a sense of bring out positive emotions, to inspire, to bring facility to humanity, to sanctify. Here it is being used to desecrate, to decrease utility, to ward away. As a hacker, I'm used to the thought of "what is the worst possible way I can make this UI", but it's cool to see it applied in an entirely…

> It's really interesting to me to see architecture used for its typical antithesis.

I dunno, I can think of a modern architect or two who could design a dystopic hellscape intended to deter humans from entering for 10,000 years in his sleep …

> It is typically used to bring a sense of bring out positive emotions, to inspire, to bring facility to humanity, to sanctify.

I certainly wouldn't attribute those purposes to, say, the Brutalists.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#222

Post by tgb »

Wait, can we all just take a minute to relish the extreme nominative determinism in Ward Goodenough being involved in this project? This man was born for this role.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#223

Post by jackhack »

orbitingpluto wrote: post #105

I'm never understood this marker system. Graves have been marked in a threatening manner so that they would not be plundered. It doesn't work. The point is to hide the waste. The system should be designed to progressively unveil warnings if some future man starts digging. Otherwise, you're just asking for them to dig it up. Another thing not mentioned is to design the container so that anyone who plans to excavate wi…

>>a multi-level pirate cache.

I immediately think of Oak Island, Nova Scotia, where a pirate's stash has resisted recovery for an incredible 221 years but has yielded taunting clues:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island

Re: This is not a place of honor

#224

Post by hewhowhineth »

patrickk wrote: post #159
neltnerb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was pretty interesting that they weren't really talking about making the site "threatening", but making it "repulsive". Poor craftsmanship, ugly terrain, uncomfortable heat, low value materials, etc. Some of their design photos were very different from what I'd assumed, and pretty much immediately triggered my "eww" response. Not intimidating exactly, just uncomfortable.

They attempted to go with "repulsive" for a nuclear waste disposal site in Finland, there's a really cool documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmWadizC8AQ

Outstanding documentary. Thanks.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#225

Post by jackhack »

neltnerb wrote: post #111
orbitingpluto wrote: post #105

I'm never understood this marker system. Graves have been marked in a threatening manner so that they would not be plundered. It doesn't work. The point is to hide the waste. The system should be designed to progressively unveil warnings if some future man starts digging. Otherwise, you're just asking for them to dig it up. Another thing not mentioned is to design the container so that anyone who plans to excavate wi…

I thought it was pretty interesting that they weren't really talking about making the site "threatening", but making it "repulsive". Poor craftsmanship, ugly terrain, uncomfortable heat, low value materials, etc. Some of their design photos were very different from what I'd assumed, and pretty much immediately triggered my "eww" response. Not intimidating exactly, just uncomfortable.

This is used today in the high security vault industry.

Safes often include rubber pellets in the concrete pour between steel casing layers. Cutting into the safe with a torch or plasma cutter will cause these rubber pellets to burn and fill the room with noxious odors and thick smoke.

It doesn't necessarily increase the physical resistance to entry, but it makes the environment extraordinarily unpleasant.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#226

Post by mhurron »

jackhack wrote: post #223
orbitingpluto wrote: post #105

I'm never understood this marker system. Graves have been marked in a threatening manner so that they would not be plundered. It doesn't work. The point is to hide the waste. The system should be designed to progressively unveil warnings if some future man starts digging. Otherwise, you're just asking for them to dig it up. Another thing not mentioned is to design the container so that anyone who plans to excavate wi…

>>a multi-level pirate cache. I immediately think of Oak Island, Nova Scotia, where a pirate's stash has resisted recovery for an incredible 221 years but has yielded taunting clues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island

It would appear that it has resisted recovery because there's probably nothing there.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#227

Post by jtmarmon »

> (a) We have all become very marker-prone, but shouldn't we nevertheless admit that, in the end, despite all we try to do, the most effective "marker" for any intruders will be a relatively limited amount of sickness and death caused by the radioactive waste? In other words, it is largely a self-correcting process if anyone intrudes without appropriate precautions, and it seems unlikely that intrusion on such buried waste would lead to large-scale disasters. An analysis of the likely number of deaths over 10,000 years due to inadvertent intrusion should be conducted. This cost should be weighted against that of the marker system.

Wow. reminds me of the ford pinto case: http://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Legg...

Re: This is not a place of honor

#229

Post by Zikes »

mhurron wrote: post #226
jackhack wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>a multi-level pirate cache. I immediately think of Oak Island, Nova Scotia, where a pirate's stash has resisted recovery for an incredible 221 years but has yielded taunting clues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island

It would appear that it has resisted recovery because there's probably nothing there.

A most clever ruse, to be sure.
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