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If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

bbc.co.uk

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Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#41

Post by sopooneo »

tunap wrote: post #11

Tragic. I, personally, could not sit idly by and watch, or record, anyone suffering without attempting to assist. Consequences be damned, I would hope for the same assistance if I were injured & needing aid. This is something I have spent a lot of time contemplating lately as I watch people texting while operating multi-ton vehicles at any speed, let alone at 80mph(130kmh)down the highway. I have witnessed a notable…

What if a close personal friend had done so in the past to horrible consequences for themselves? What if time and again, you hear stories of good Samaritans reaping life destroying "thanks". What if you are a parent, and know that helping may risk putting you in jail, and unable to provide for you very poor family?

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#42

Post by mikeash »

shripadk wrote: post #29
wmt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how does that even work? If someone drops in an injured person and leaves, will the hospital just let the injured person die on the floor? If bystanders doing nothing raises headlines in India, I'd imagine hospitals doing that would be an even bigger scandal.

I can confirm this. Hospitals don't treat unless the injured person's relative(s) sign legal papers. The general rule of thumb in India is that one should always carry at least an ID proof (better yet an insurance policy) so that in case of an accident the hospital can contact the relative.

This is what a true free-market health care system looks like.

I always wonder about this when I see people arguing against socialized medicine. Should accident victims be left to die like this? Any answer besides "yes" implies some sort of government intervention. In the US, since 1986, ERs must treat everyone. This basically gave us a really bizarre socialized medicine system with horribly inefficient funding and procedures.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#43

Post by tunap »

mikeash wrote: post #38
tunap wrote: post #11

Tragic. I, personally, could not sit idly by and watch, or record, anyone suffering without attempting to assist. Consequences be damned, I would hope for the same assistance if I were injured & needing aid. This is something I have spent a lot of time contemplating lately as I watch people texting while operating multi-ton vehicles at any speed, let alone at 80mph(130kmh)down the highway. I have witnessed a notable…

Would you still do that if you had friends or family who had been bankrupted or jailed because they helped a crash victim? It's easy to say that you would help when it's a hypothetical situation. It's much harder to actually do it when the consequences are staring you in the face. Maybe you still would, but you can't really know how you'd react until you've actually been in that situation. Indians are not fundamental…

People are people. Societal norms vary. And yes, I would and have put myself in physical jeopardy assisting people in need.

Edit: In the US we have 'Good Samaritan' laws for most of that. It is possible I could do more harm &/or be liable for my actions. Yet, I refuse to not do what I believe is 'right' out of fear. Yeah, my lifestyle & welfare has suffered(sic) for my principles in many facets of life, but principles require sacrifice and I am comfortable with my choices so far.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#44

Post by mcguire »

shripadk wrote: post #29
wmt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how does that even work? If someone drops in an injured person and leaves, will the hospital just let the injured person die on the floor? If bystanders doing nothing raises headlines in India, I'd imagine hospitals doing that would be an even bigger scandal.

I can confirm this. Hospitals don't treat unless the injured person's relative(s) sign legal papers. The general rule of thumb in India is that one should always carry at least an ID proof (better yet an insurance policy) so that in case of an accident the hospital can contact the relative.

That sounds more scandalous than roadside bystanders.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#46

Post by mikeash »

tunap wrote: post #43
mikeash wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you still do that if you had friends or family who had been bankrupted or jailed because they helped a crash victim? It's easy to say that you would help when it's a hypothetical situation. It's much harder to actually do it when the consequences are staring you in the face. Maybe you still would, but you can't really know how you'd react until you've actually been in that situation. Indians are not fundamental…

People are people. Societal norms vary. And yes, I would and have put myself in physical jeopardy assisting people in need. Edit: In the US we have 'Good Samaritan' laws for most of that. It is possible I could do more harm &/or be liable for my actions. Yet, I refuse to not do what I believe is 'right' out of fear. Yeah, my lifestyle & welfare has suffered(sic) for my principles in many facets of life, but principle…

It's one thing to take a small, calculated risk on your life to save someone, and quite another to take a substantial and likely risk of financial ruin or prison just to help someone who will probably be turned out to die by the hospital.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#47

Post by ansible »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #21
parennoob wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of low-effort, off-the-cuff pronouncement that I hate seeing on here. Because an Indian (presumably) you knew was driving in an unsafe manner, you can directly make pronouncements about "mass insanity" about a country of a billion people? Mind you, I'm not saying Indians are safe drivers. Indian driving, I freely admit, is spectacularly unsafe and makes me worried. There are a host of factors that ca…

Sorry to hit your hot button! That was meant kindly. But I see your point. And thanks for fleshing out the argument - certainly there is something desperately wrong with the Indian road situation.

Frankly, it is not just India, but, well, most of the hemisphere. Traffic is nuts, and drivers are nuts across most of the area (China, India, SE Asia, Russia), except for maybe Japan.

Its not a race thing, but maybe it is a culture thing. We certainly have our share of asshole drivers in the USA, but it doesn't at all compare to what I've seen elsewhere, in terms of quantity / quality.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#48

Post by adrianratnapala »

kzrdude wrote: post #8
whistlerbrk wrote: post #6

Sounds like they desperately need a good samaritan law

No, it sounds like they need to fix a whole range of issues including medical fees, police culture, and so on, that each has a part in enabling social trust.

This kind of answer to social problems is itself a problem -- no single reform will do much good, so we risk paralysis. But really to move forward people should try to make whatever easy reform might help a bit.

In this case a procedural reform in the courts might help. If someone who looks prima-facie like a good Samaritan is being charged with something, and if the court is too swamped to deal with it quickly, they should just drop it.

That could help with the police too -- the reason police harass people is to try and get bribes. People pay those bribes because they fear endless red-tape if the try to fight a spurious charge.

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#49

Post by weeksie »

A little tangental.

Indians are insanely good drivers given their actual traffic conditions. I just spent two months there and as (fucking annoying) as it was to walk through the crowds with motorcycles whipping by, inches away from me all the time, I wasn't very concerned with them hitting me. Anecdotally, everybody appeared to be watching everyone else on the road—otherwise it would have been sheer insanity because their infrastructure is horrible.

Thai drivers on the other hand. . . .

Re: If no-one helps you after a car crash in India, this is why

#50

Post by [deleted] »

weeksie wrote: post #49

A little tangental. Indians are insanely good drivers given their actual traffic conditions. I just spent two months there and as (fucking annoying) as it was to walk through the crowds with motorcycles whipping by, inches away from me all the time, I wasn't very concerned with them hitting me. Anecdotally, everybody appeared to be watching everyone else on the road—otherwise it would have been sheer insanity because…

[deleted]
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