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This is not a place of honor

wipp.energy.gov

71–80 of 287 posts

Re: This is not a place of honor

#71
post #30

I've read the report several times (it keeps coming back every 5-7 years or so) since publication, and I've never felt like a reliable solution had wither been found, or was in the offing. There is good thinking, but the problem itself seems very daunting. I think that is the real lesson.

It is because the problem does not exist. So no solution is required. Those "waste dumps" are prime fuel for next gen LFTR's.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#72
http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/ten-thousand-years/

99pi did an awesome about this. I thought the most interesting idea was that culture permeated much deeper than anything else. So seed our world with these stories of cats that changed color near radiation or something like that would do best. Since symbols meaning change but oral tradition or old wives tales last much longer.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#73
post #32
post #23

It's really interesting to me to see architecture used for its typical antithesis. It is typically used to bring a sense of bring out positive emotions, to inspire, to bring facility to humanity, to sanctify. Here it is being used to desecrate, to decrease utility, to ward away. As a hacker, I'm used to the thought of "what is the worst possible way I can make this UI", but it's cool to see it applied in an entirely…

> It is typically used to bring a sense of bring out positive emotions, to inspire, to bring facility to humanity, to sanctify. Here it is being used to desecrate, to decrease utility, to ward away. Not that uncommon. I have known 2 architects who used architecture against probably what they learned in school or dreamed of building. One was designing casinos. Apparently they did "dark patterns" before computer UI peo…

Dark patterns aren't uncommon, sure. But I feel like in trying to design a nuclear waste site they are using antipatterns, purposely trying to avoid or subvert every common pattern in design. Or in terms of the computing metaphor a dark pattern would be a website that splits content across several pages. An antipattern would loading MBs of webfonts and polyfills to display a single word and a link saying "Click here for the next word." (At least as I'm trying to use the word "antipattern").

I do not really know much about architecture personally, so I appreciate the input. I do feel sorry for the people who do the soul crushing work like that, making the world just a little worse in order to survive. We all have a choice, even if we can't see it now.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#74
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we've only been relevant for ~7,000 and if we do not make the Earth inhospitable ourselves in the next 10k years then the chances of a cataclysmic event are ever increasing to assist us. 99.9% of all animals ever to exist on the Earth are extinct, we're not that special.

We're pretty special, at least in the context of this planet. Science tells us that we are by far the most intelligent creatures to live on Earth in its observable history, and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. In the very least, we are the only creatures to inhabit Earth, that if we become extinct, it is somewhat likely that we are both the victim and the perpetrator.

> and the only ones to meaningfully modify it.

The first oxygen-excreting algae may have a prior claim...

Re: This is not a place of honor

#75
Sad that even in 1993 the government was still producing documents on a typewriter with shitty, photocopied black-and-white line art. Photoshop had already been available for three years at this point.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#76
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we've only been relevant for ~7,000 and if we do not make the Earth inhospitable ourselves in the next 10k years then the chances of a cataclysmic event are ever increasing to assist us. 99.9% of all animals ever to exist on the Earth are extinct, we're not that special.

We're pretty special, at least in the context of this planet. Science tells us that we are by far the most intelligent creatures to live on Earth in its observable history, and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. In the very least, we are the only creatures to inhabit Earth, that if we become extinct, it is somewhat likely that we are both the victim and the perpetrator.

Intelligence is not a indicator of survivability, and if it somehow was, we found ourselves on the completely wrong side of the argument. How many other planet-altering intelligent species do you see around you ? Do you think that is a good indicator of survivability ?

Re: This is not a place of honor

#77
post #30

I've read the report several times (it keeps coming back every 5-7 years or so) since publication, and I've never felt like a reliable solution had wither been found, or was in the offing. There is good thinking, but the problem itself seems very daunting. I think that is the real lesson.

This has been haunting the news since the early '80s and it will go on for several more decades. Then, after whatever they finally come up with is constructed, there will be a creepy spectacle about which to write more tired news stories.

It has always seemed a waste of effort to me. If some primitive post-dystopian human were to dig hundreds of meters through salt (!) and come into contact with the waste they would be rapidly educated as to the hazard and go find something better to do. Anyone less primitive should have no trouble interpreting some straightforward pictographs preserved on a few strategically placed brass plaques embedded in granite. In the meantime surround the site in stainless barbed wire and perform routine inspections.

I guess it was kinda fun thinking about this `problem.' Once. Long ago. But since then it seems to have just devolved into a boondoggle attracting an ever greater circle of paper writers. Meanwhile, with all of these great minds sweating 10,000 year hypotheticals, the actual handling of waste is down to yahoo contractors mixing high level waste with randomly procured cat litter, producing nitrate fueled nuclear waste explosions...

Priorities. In order. Not.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#78
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we've only been relevant for ~7,000 and if we do not make the Earth inhospitable ourselves in the next 10k years then the chances of a cataclysmic event are ever increasing to assist us. 99.9% of all animals ever to exist on the Earth are extinct, we're not that special.

We're pretty special, at least in the context of this planet. Science tells us that we are by far the most intelligent creatures to live on Earth in its observable history, and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. In the very least, we are the only creatures to inhabit Earth, that if we become extinct, it is somewhat likely that we are both the victim and the perpetrator.

Surely not the only ones to meaningfully modify earth. If you look from space, earth looks green... Also, wasn't the atmosphere changed to be more rich in oxygen by early microbes?

Re: This is not a place of honor

#79
post #65

Honestly, reading this, I kept thinking to myself, "Man, this is just waiting to be turned into science fiction short story." It could go in different directions, future humans discover such a site, humans discover an alien analogue of such a site on $planet, aliens discover such a site crafted by humans on $planet, etc. Either way, there's potential for a good story there.

I think the most interesting thing about this is the underlying assumption that warnings and containment must survive .. the death of our current civilization and States.

These researchers are talking the long path .. how do we warn people who make not have any knowledge our civilization exists in its current form?

Too many people today think this will last forever; that we're in a golden age that we cannot easily return from.

Re: This is not a place of honor

#80
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we've only been relevant for ~7,000 and if we do not make the Earth inhospitable ourselves in the next 10k years then the chances of a cataclysmic event are ever increasing to assist us. 99.9% of all animals ever to exist on the Earth are extinct, we're not that special.

We're pretty special, at least in the context of this planet. Science tells us that we are by far the most intelligent creatures to live on Earth in its observable history, and the only ones to meaningfully modify it. In the very least, we are the only creatures to inhabit Earth, that if we become extinct, it is somewhat likely that we are both the victim and the perpetrator.

Cyano-bacteria created our current breathable atmosphere and most all iron deposits. Calciferous phytoplankton built England, vast tracks of southern France and literally creates the air we breathe. Those things all meaningfully modified it back in deep time and continue to modify it today.
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