In year 2000 when I was 16 years old 64k fr-08 by farbrausch told me that I know nothing about programming ;) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3n3c_8Nn2Y
Indeed, and for me, before that, Future Crew's Second Reality.
Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
111–120 of 154 posts
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#112After viewing LFT's work in using an ATMEL microcontroller as a demoscene platform: http://www.linusakesson.net/scene/craft/index.php ...I had the thought a possible frontier in demoscene is make your own hardware out of discrete components to run your demo. The MOnSter 6502 would count - http://monster6502.com/
Just because that wasn't enough, lft has also written a demo which created a custom CPU/GPU on an FPGA to run a demo:
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#113Does this mean that lots of 3:30 minutes 1080p videos could be compressed into 4kb? EDIT: We can be generous and say 40kb for sake of adding more colours / etc.
Well, it's not compressed, it's generated.
You could generate an endless video with less code, but it would most likely be uninteresting. Scene demos are interesting because it's art and direction and music generated from algorithms rather than creating those things and compressing them efficiently.
But, yes, at some level there is an idea of a dna seed and a process to create something much more profound, we as humanity haven't come close to cracking that, though.
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#114Does this mean that lots of 3:30 minutes 1080p videos could be compressed into 4kb? EDIT: We can be generous and say 40kb for sake of adding more colours / etc.
Well, it's not compressed, it's generated. You could generate an endless video with less code, but it would most likely be uninteresting. Scene demos are interesting because it's art and direction and music generated from algorithms rather than creating those things and compressing them efficiently. But, yes, at some level there is an idea of a dna seed and a process to create something much more profound, we as huma…
I suspect that if at all possible to have an algorithm that can generate the seeds plus the process to expand them, then that algorithm would take orders of magnitude longer to run then there would be practical in any meaningful time scale.
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is actually an insightful question. The practical answer is no . There is an unimaginable amount of possible 3:30 minute vidoes—far more than the number of possible 4kb or even 40kb files. To be fair, most of those possible vidoes are just noise. We don't have to be able to compress those because people don't care if one video of noise is different from another. We also don't have to reconstruct the video perfec…
4K of English text is a couple of pages of a novel, enough to describe a character and a situation, maybe an interaction. A good writer can conjure up a whole world in 4K... but probably not a description of an arbitrary 3 and a half minutes of activity.
That being said, speech is far from the best compression we can ever hope of achieving.
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#116Release info: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 Binary: https://files.scene.org/view/parties/2009/breakpoint09/in4k/... Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o Everything you see and hear is procedurally generated by the 4096 byte executable, in real time. It still blows my mind 7 years after release...
4KB using directx/opengl, very different from old time writing stuff directly in the video card.
Exactly, 4kb on top of the hundreds of megabytes of libraries and drivers.
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do realize he copied your comment, don't you?
Yeah, but I still wonder how often people copy comments around like that. It's not like that was some great writing or anything, but it was copied word for word. Maybe it was some bot, but that's an odd bot.
I've seen it happen on YouTube (not to me); highly upvoted comments get copy/pasted a month or two later to "steal" upvotes for someone else.
It could be a bot tactic to build accounts with karma that can later be used for astroturfing, using proven comments from elsewhere. Maybe governments and organized astroturfers have automated that sort of thing more than we think.
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#118Does this mean that lots of 3:30 minutes 1080p videos could be compressed into 4kb? EDIT: We can be generous and say 40kb for sake of adding more colours / etc.
This is actually an insightful question. The practical answer is no . There is an unimaginable amount of possible 3:30 minute vidoes—far more than the number of possible 4kb or even 40kb files. To be fair, most of those possible vidoes are just noise. We don't have to be able to compress those because people don't care if one video of noise is different from another. We also don't have to reconstruct the video perfec…
Nice insight you brought with the CPU and the standard libraries being a relevant factor, hadn't thought of that.
Your thought experiment sounds more like a "codec" than a procedural generation. I guess it is an arbitrary line given that we are using CPU, etc. But the bigger the decompressing "model" the further away from true 4k compression we are.
Re: Source code for 4kb demoscene production “Elevated” released
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, I thought it was obvious, but the question is: Could procedural generation be used to achieve amazing compression rates given a currently impossible to code algorithm?
"39. Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words - but only those to describe the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described with pictures." It's the pigeonhole principle; there are only a few long videos possibly encodable as short programs because there are only a few short programs in the first place. To get compression performance, one has to target an ever smaller subset of possible videos,…
Obviously it would be AI-complete. I didn't know that term, that's what I meant by currently impossible to code. I just learned my favorite term ever, thanks for that!.
Although disappointing, you seem to have the correct answer for my question.