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Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

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411–420 of 582 posts

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that because a road was paid for with "public money", that ought to guarantee unfettered access to that road is just a fundamentally juvenile, silly idea.

I didn't say unfettered access, I said access. Unless there are specific, justifiable reasons, public things should be publicly accessible. i.e. you can't rifle through your mayors paper's or freely walk in prison, though many are sickeningly privately owned. You should, however, be able to use a public park. Would it be wrong to limit the use of a park to only the people within a block of it? Look, my street is used…

You used "a few words" when floating your idea, so...

Wanting to minimize traffic on a residential side street for the privacy and safety of its residents is a specific, justifiable reason for putting up a "No through traffic" sign. You might not like it but it meets your criteria.

The funny thing is, whether you're talking about speed bumps or Berkeley street dividers when talking about "traffic calming measures," a simple sign (and possible but unlikely consequences for not heeding the sign) might often be an infinitely more user friendly option for both the residents and the would-be shortcutters. Turning onto a street and discovering speed bumps or barriers sucks, and they suck even more if you have to live there.

I lived in Berkeley and the sign strikes me as a gentle first step to take before altering the streets. On the other hand, I'm really, really doubtful one solution or the other is going to be universally more effective. I don't think the "no through traffic" signs one sees where I live now would have worked in Berkeley, for example, even though they seem effective enough here. Different crowd, different traffic patterns.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#412
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palo Alto has a lot of these traffic calming measures and roadblocks to prevent traffic through local neighborhoods. Sometimes it can get out of hand. From http://infolab.stanford.edu/~ullman/pub/nimby.html Just a few months ago, in Palo Alto, residents near downtown put up a vicious collection of roadblocks to get cars off their streets. The folly was exposed when a thief escaped because the police chasing him were…

We don't actually have any information about whether that was folly or not. Let's say 2 children avoid a trip to the hospital over the next 5 years, but four thieves escape. That would be a perfectly acceptable compromise to me.

(Shrug) When I was a child, I was taught not to play in the street.

Meanwhile, access for emergency vehicles can be pretty important for the rest of us.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#413
post #175

I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. The city created a three-way stop before th…

I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. I hope what happened in my neighborhood doesn't happen in yours. One person vetoed a stop sign that would have made our street much, much safer due to the blind curve and how fast…

These "if it saves just ONE CHILD" arguments can often be clarified with hard data. How many accidents have occurred to date due to excessive speed on the blind curve?

If the answer is zero, and the curve otherwise meets traffic-engineering best practices, well... stop whining.

If the answer is nonzero, maybe there's a solution other than putting up unnecessary stop signs that will just discourage respect for traffic laws in general.

But we don't have enough data to say for sure in this thread, and emotional appeals don't help at all.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#414
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using Waze because of its nutty directions: deep dives into neighborhoods, stop signs every two blocks, piles of turns, circuitous routes, etc. I do not like coming to a complete stop every two blocks, I'll take 5mph continuous over that. I do not like dumping my traffic annoyances onto neighborhoods who didn't voluntarily agree to increased traffic just to make my commute shorter, this is free loading and…

> neighborhoods who didn't voluntarily agree to increased traffic just to make my commute shorter, this is free loading and their roads are for them to get to and from their home It's nothing against you but is this a common opinion in the US? People in neighborhoods "own" the streets? As a Frenchman saying this is astonishing as I would naturally consider that I do own the street just as much as they do and it's my…

The increase in traffic in some areas can be a safety issue. Close to where I live is a lower school. During rush hour, many drivers choose to drive down the parallel side street for about 5 or 6 blocks to bypass a minute of traffic. Often, these drivers speed and ignore pedestrians, stop signs and cross walks. Just recently, a child was hit by one of these drivers in front of the school and suffered major injury.

The community has organized with the city to add in more stop signs and is attempting to get speed bumps put in place that would control the speed of the traffic. Everyone understands that they cannot legally stop someone from driving down the street but they can add in traffic controls to lower the risk to those who live in the area and make it less appealing to leave the main road designed for higher traffic.

In our case, it isn't about owning the streets, but rather is a matter of safety.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#415

I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. The city created a three-way stop before th…

> The city created a three-way stop before the curve that has slowed traffic on the street and seems to have reduced non-local traffic.

How is this not the same NIMBY entitlement? "There are too many people using this public road, let's make it more arduous to use and let someone else suffer the traffic." That doesn't actually reduce traffic, it only redirects it. And if the people now receiving the traffic respond in kind to restore the original balance all you've done is put up more stop signs, which cause vehicles to stop and then have to accelerate again, increasing air pollution and climate change and redirecting more money to terrorism-supporting countries.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#416
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the California Bay Area, this is not true. There is a non-trivial number of people who are willing to commute 2+ hours each way in order to live in bigger, cheaper houses in "safer" neighborhoods.

The same is true of the Washington DC metro area... However, in both cases, I would bet that the distance involved is about 50-60 miles. If that traffic were moving at speed, it would be an hour commute - and I would submit very few people would put more than that amount of mileage on their car everyday (>30,000 miles/year).

Given how the average car made today can do 200,000+ miles with minimal problems (especially if they're mostly highway miles), I don't think "putting too many miles on the car" would be a limiting factor.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#417
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palo Alto has a lot of these traffic calming measures and roadblocks to prevent traffic through local neighborhoods. Sometimes it can get out of hand. From http://infolab.stanford.edu/~ullman/pub/nimby.html Just a few months ago, in Palo Alto, residents near downtown put up a vicious collection of roadblocks to get cars off their streets. The folly was exposed when a thief escaped because the police chasing him were…

We don't actually have any information about whether that was folly or not. Let's say 2 children avoid a trip to the hospital over the next 5 years, but four thieves escape. That would be a perfectly acceptable compromise to me.

Meanwhile maybe two children die in drowning incidents because fire engines and ambulances aren't able to effectively navigate your makeshift 'traffic abatement' program. How's your compromise now?

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No Thru Traffic" signs are enforceable!? What law does that fall under?

The law that says disobeying officially posted traffic-control signage is a prohibited?

How does your average driver know that the traffic control signage is official when the residents are putting up their own privately owned signs for traffic control?

If they have to 'err on the side of caution', then the residents win, despite having no legal right.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#419

I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. The city created a three-way stop before th…

> The city created a three-way stop before the curve that has slowed traffic on the street and seems to have reduced non-local traffic. How is this not the same NIMBY entitlement? "There are too many people using this public road, let's make it more arduous to use and let someone else suffer the traffic." That doesn't actually reduce traffic, it only redirects it. And if the people now receiving the traffic respond i…

That escalation from stop signs to funding terrorists was entertaining to say the least

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#420

I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. The city created a three-way stop before th…

> I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. This is the correct analysis. Unless it's a gated subdivision, the streets are operated by the government for the broad public benefit; not the local benefit of the homeowners.

By that argument, would you have an objection to me operating a horse carriage on a freeway?
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