Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist • Hacker News Board

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#181

Post by phil21 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

knodi123 wrote: post #95

phil21 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone sues you and you don't respond, you risk a default judgment against you. There are entire companies set up with the purpose of suing people who don't respond. They purposefully use bad law to operate these mills, and absolutely no one seems to actually care. Google pocket filing[1] if you want to see those that abuse this the most. In my state serving someone (for small claims) is simply tossing a first…

> The latter almost always get away with it, and I've literally recorded them tossing paperwork in the trash without ever knocking on my door while attesting to the court I was properly served Jesus christ, what kind of life do you lead?!? I'd be terrified to even be served once, let alone to feel it necessary to set up a sting to uncover a conspiracy between process servers and evil litigants. Hope you manage to sta…

Haha, I had an interesting few years I'd like to sometimes forget... But it was certainly an eye opening experience into the inner workings of this system.

And just a security camera the process server didn't notice :)

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#182

Post by talmand » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:34 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #22

GoldenMonkey wrote: post #3

Would be nice to have a 'loser pays' court system for civil trials. These kinds of trolls would go away quickly.

The problem with 'loser pays' is that it can actually encourage frivolous litigation like this. Often there are civil suits where the defendant and plaintiff agree that there are some valid claims, but they disagree on the specifics and amount of the damages. If the plaintiff knows that eventually they will 'win' their fees and costs regardless, they have an incentive to disagree with settlement offers. It looks like…

But in that case you do not profit from the frivolous lawsuit; which, I think, was the idea behind suggesting loser pays to help prevent such lawsuits. Of course your lawyer may profit nicely.

Now, if you were representing yourself...

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#183

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:35 PM UTC

Not that this isn't absurd but CL is for shit you can't ship. eBay is for stuff you can. CL acts purely as a platform to list classified ads and leaves dispute resolution up to the users. That's why this happened. Add this to the other 9000 reasons you only do business via CL face to face and with cash. Move along, nothing to see here folks.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#184

Post by j2bax » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #165

j2bax wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is easy with smaller items, but what if you wanted to sell a couch or a treadmill? In the past I thought it would be nice if there was a sort of consignment style store where people could park their Craigslist goods for people to come look at. I think this might go against Craigslists terms of service though... I am very apprehensive to have strangers over to my house, but I also don't know of a better way to se…

That's an interesting thought. I'm not sure how I'd handle that either. Like you said the pickup truck is the default answer. I will say in lieu of a truck, I have a hitch on one of my cars and a small flatbed trailer[0]. :/ Mine has boards on the sides and bottom of it so I can haul rock and dirt. But the thought of wheeling a treadmill around is for some reason kind of hilarious. I'd take it to the gas station thou…

Yeah... I'd hate to haul a treadmill around for tire kickers... That thing is like 350lb's!

One other thought is to use a more localized service like Nextdoor where you are only selling to people in your subdivision/neighborhood. I would think this would cut down on the riff raff, but also cuts down on potential buyers.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#185

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #179

BuckRogers wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know their exact involvement, but they were involved. Did they help carry it out? I don't have the play by play. It wasn't a court case and I didn't care. The guys who drove off with it it were staying at their place that night. I knew it was one of two groups of folks or all of them at the house that evening. So I knew damn well I had the right people who could get the situation resolved in an efficient mann…

Sound like you had no idea if these guys had been involved in taking your TV, you just knew they where involved with the group that did. If a bunch of guys broke into your place in similar circumstances, would you be ok with that? > For the record, they weren't harmed until they pulled a gun out It seems reasonable to pull a gun on a bunch of strangers invading your home.

Yep. Now tell me something. You ever gonna steal this man's TV? Or be involved with the kinds of people that would?

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#186

Post by phil21 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

talmand wrote: post #180

jeffmould wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work either. What happens, for example, if I sue you, you don't show up, I tell the judge you owe me a million dollars and show him a bill I printed on my computer that morning for a million dollars. You aren't there to tell the judge otherwise, so going on the "facts" I present doesn't solve the problem either.

Well, if I were the judge on that case, I would simply ask if you had any evidence to show that the bill presented was not printed on your computer that morning and actually was presented to the other party. Just presenting something in court does not make it a fact, actual real evidence is required.

> Just presenting something in court does not make it a fact, actual real evidence is required.

It actually kinda does... If the other party does not challenge it.

If I show up in court with a bill that shows you owe me a million dollars, I attest that we agreed to it, and you don't challenge that fact? That's the truth as far as the court is concerned.

However, the overall point I believe still stands. Weigh the case based on the evidence presented - if it later turns out that a plaintiff committed fraud to get a favorable ruling you now have actual evidence of foul play on the record.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#187

Post by billforsternz » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

chasing wrote: post #9

If I'm reading correctly, the key bit is: ----- Because Costello did not respond to all three requests for admissions within 30 days of receiving them, and did not ask for an extension of time, as required by Indiana trial rules, Costello admitted to the liabilities and damages by default. He also did not appear at a July 2013 hearing, according to court records. Costello said he never received the requests for admis…

>If Costello just ignored these requests.....this is kind of on him.

I disagree. If someone is trolling outrageously with something that is clearly of no merit ($30000 for a $40 printer) ignoring them should be an option.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#188

Post by Chris2048 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #185

Chris2048 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound like you had no idea if these guys had been involved in taking your TV, you just knew they where involved with the group that did. If a bunch of guys broke into your place in similar circumstances, would you be ok with that? > For the record, they weren't harmed until they pulled a gun out It seems reasonable to pull a gun on a bunch of strangers invading your home.

Yep. Now tell me something. You ever gonna steal this man's TV? Or be involved with the kinds of people that would?

Guilt by association?

So if anyone attacks his friends or family, alls fair, because they chose to associate with the kind of person that would illegally invade someones house with a mob...

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#189

Post by pbhjpbhj » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:53 PM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #186

talmand wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if I were the judge on that case, I would simply ask if you had any evidence to show that the bill presented was not printed on your computer that morning and actually was presented to the other party. Just presenting something in court does not make it a fact, actual real evidence is required.

> Just presenting something in court does not make it a fact, actual real evidence is required. It actually kinda does... If the other party does not challenge it. If I show up in court with a bill that shows you owe me a million dollars, I attest that we agreed to it, and you don't challenge that fact? That's the truth as far as the court is concerned. However, the overall point I believe still stands. Weigh the cas…

>If I show up in court with a bill that shows you owe me a million dollars, I attest that we agreed to it, and you don't challenge that fact? That's the truth as far as the court is concerned. //

Absolutely not. A court shouldn't sit on "anything said that isn't challenged is 100% true", it should look in a tort case on the balance of probabilities. IMO courts should attempt to discover what is true and rule on that, not attempt to find who can afford to pay for the best lawyer.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#190

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #188

vinceguidry wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now tell me something. You ever gonna steal this man's TV? Or be involved with the kinds of people that would?

Guilt by association? So if anyone attacks his friends or family, alls fair, because they chose to associate with the kind of person that would illegally invade someones house with a mob...

If someone attacked his friends or family, God help them, because nobody else will.

Fairness is not a universal concept. What is fair is determined by who has the bigger clan and the most guns. Some places, that's the state. In far more places than you would believe, the state is too weak to enforce its version of justice, so it's left up to men like Buck and his brother. Are they going to do it to your standards? Probably not. So it's on you to not piss them off.