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Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

computerworld.com

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Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#51

Post by dragontamer »

mikeash wrote: post #50
dragontamer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe that cuts off Tesla's access, not just your own So no way to cut off Tesla's access to YOUR OWN CAR, without cutting out your own access? And even then, you're not sure?

Yeah, remote access goes through their servers. You can still drive the car, you just can't use their smartphone app. I don't know why you'd expect anything else. If you want to be sure , then pull the SIM card. It's a bit of work to get to it, but not too tough.

> Yeah, remote access goes through their servers. You can still drive the car, you just can't use their smartphone app. I don't know why you'd expect anything else.

Just because I open my computer up for OneDrive doesn't mean I am going to let Microsoft keylog all of my keyboard presses. Or Teamviewer (ignoring mistakes like hacks / software vulnerabilities).

The closest analogue is Cortana / Swype reading keystrokes to train the keyboard AIs on phones, which is clearly denoted in the terms of use and can be turned off individually.

Regardless, Tesla's policy and technology stack are designed to protect the company, not the customer. Lets put it this way, do customers get this Tesla black-box data available to them if they get into a mundane car crash on a normal road? To prove that it was the other driver's fault?

Or does Tesla normally keep this data to itself?

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#53

Post by mikeash »

dragontamer wrote: post #51
mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, remote access goes through their servers. You can still drive the car, you just can't use their smartphone app. I don't know why you'd expect anything else. If you want to be sure , then pull the SIM card. It's a bit of work to get to it, but not too tough.

> Yeah, remote access goes through their servers. You can still drive the car, you just can't use their smartphone app. I don't know why you'd expect anything else. Just because I open my computer up for OneDrive doesn't mean I am going to let Microsoft keylog all of my keyboard presses. Or Teamviewer (ignoring mistakes like hacks / software vulnerabilities). The closest analogue is Cortana / Swype reading keystrokes…

I totally agree that it should be a separate control. But I'm not at all surprised that it isn't, and if you're so upset about this access that you consider it immoral, losing the smartphone app should be a small price to pay.

I have no idea if we get this data in other circumstances. If I ever find out, I'll be sure to let people know. I hope I never have to find out, of course.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#54

Post by Nadya »

Radle wrote: post #52

"He said his wife had not activated any self-driving features at the time of the crash." He said it himself, the electronics were off, his wive fucked up.

They are claiming that the features were off - but malfunctioned and 'worked' anyway. (eg: a mishap by Tesla)

As with most others here, I believe it was user error. These sort of accidents happen - it's just "unique" this time since they are claiming it was Tesla's fault.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#55

Post by Sir_Substance »

gist wrote: post #15
DigitalJack wrote: post #3

That is some terrible reporting. Who knows what will come of this accident, but the one referenced where the guy claims the car ran into a trailer on it's own was pretty well refuted by Tesla's black-box style monitoring. It raises the question of how to prove the trustworthiness of the event recording. I suppose an audit of their recording mechanisms could be enough, but it would be nice if the permanent recorder wa…

Crazy idea but what about a camera placed in a way that Tesla would capture footage of the brake and accelerator. Store up to X minutes/hours of that would come in helpful when combined with the other data they collect.

Sounds like an unnecessarily complex alternative to just logging the pedal state the same as you would a keypress.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#56

Post by honkhonkpants »

beachstartup wrote: post #41
chrisseaton wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it hard to get used to a car with no clutch?

most cars don't have clutches these days.

... in america. Most cars sold in Europe are still manuals, although automatics are slowly taking over there, too.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#57

Post by i_are_smart »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #55
gist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy idea but what about a camera placed in a way that Tesla would capture footage of the brake and accelerator. Store up to X minutes/hours of that would come in helpful when combined with the other data they collect.

Sounds like an unnecessarily complex alternative to just logging the pedal state the same as you would a keypress.

The problem with just logging like that is in the reliability of the logs - what if there's a defect in the position sensor? The pedal (and thus the logs) may report throttle at 100% and breaks at 0% even if it was the other way around.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#58

Post by gist »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #55
gist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy idea but what about a camera placed in a way that Tesla would capture footage of the brake and accelerator. Store up to X minutes/hours of that would come in helpful when combined with the other data they collect.

Sounds like an unnecessarily complex alternative to just logging the pedal state the same as you would a keypress.

What is complex about logging video footage with sensor overlay (or still shots)? Plus it gives you evidence that any jury can understand.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#59

Post by gist »

palakchokshi wrote: post #27
gist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suspect that if Tesla has a rock solid way to determine it was the drivers fault they will fight that till the ends of the earth. (Of course the same could happen even if not the case but that would be a conspiracy and probably less likely for practical reasons).

Considering that the owner's wife said that she tried the brakes but they weren't working I am pretty sure there will be brake usage logs coupled with associated acceleration/deceleration data. That should tell us if the brakes were applied and if they were working. The acceleration logs will also show if the acceleration pedal was engaged at the time or not. I am assuming that an auto acceleration log is different f…

Sure but by the same token in theory if a brake was applied it should work and in this case the car owner is saying it didn't work (hence my video footage comment elsewhere).

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#60

Post by whamlastxmas »

The state of journalism today is pathetic. Some random person claims something that is extremely unlikely and it gets run as a story. No verification of events or even a comment from Tesla. They likely published intentionally before Tesla's comment because they knew it would be "Our logs show the driver did something incredibly stupid and it had nothing to do with auto-pilot" and this would become a non-story. Instead we have this clickbait bullshit that unjustly harms Tesla's reputation.
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