Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 232 posts

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#151

Post by will_brown »

cortesoft wrote: post #136
will_brown wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If, though, Zavodnik has figured out a way to serve people requests without them actually knowing about it... Well, that seems like a much larger legal loophole that needs closing. Not likely the case. The rules of civil procedure establish the various methods of lawful service of process, as a result there are a lot of safe guards. In fact, it is more likely a Plaintiff's lawsuit is dismissed for failing to properl…

I don't know, my buddy works as a Process Server, and I can imagine lots of situations where the person never actually receives the paperwork. He only has to try to serve the papers a few times, and then can leave them. If the defendant were out town for a few weeks, he would never get it. He doesn't have to check ID, so someone could say they were the person, he would hand it over, and be done with it. That person m…

I think I addressed most of your concerns:

> Plaintiffs can also establish to the Court the Defendant is actively evading service, but there are many legitimate reasons one can't serve a Defendant. Still, even in the event of defaults the Courts will readily Vacate (set aside) default judgments in circumstances including, but not limited to: 1. improper service; and/or 2. defenses on the merits.

>I don't think assuming papers served always get to the right person is a fair assumption.

It is a fair assumption, because that is what the rules require, and your friend or any other process server must sign an affidavit under oath and penalty of perjury for the exact steps they took to serve a party. Now assumptions be damn, you are right service won't always be done properly, but I mention safeguards such as a Motion to Vacate Default Judgments for lack of proper service.

>He doesn't have to check ID, so someone could say they were the person, he would hand it over, and be done with it. That person might never hand the papers to the right person.

Because you used right person you may or may not be acknowledging the fact that the actual party (defendant) in not necessarily the right person to serve or the only person who can be served to qualify as valid service of process. For example, if I sue a company I don't generally serve the company I serve their Registered Agent (ironically from time to time the Registered Agent is the same company as the defendant); more generally I can serve anyone residing at the defendants residence who is over 15 years old (FL rule); or I can serve a defendant's employer instead of the defendant.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#152

Post by boznz »

SilasX wrote: post #23
vinhboy wrote: post #6

> Special Judge J. Jeffrey Edens issued a ruling. He awarded Zavodnik a judgment of $30,044.07 for breach of contract. Holy cow. This guy needs to be fired immediately. That is beyond gross negligence.

Depends: are judges supposed to spot-check claims for whether they're reasonable? Or do they leave that entirely as "the defense's job"? Remember, these were default judgments.

"are judges supposed to spot-check claims for whether they're reasonable?" - duhh Yes.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#153

Post by Mandatum »

kristopolous wrote: post #121
knodi123 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very legitimate and real risk that zavodnik should take into account. If he got a judgment of $600,000 against me, causing me to lose my business and my home... I'd seriously be weighing pros and cons of sacrificing my freedom in order to rid the earth of this scum.

I'm sure many people get away with perfect murders every day. People dying due to a malfunctioning car or some other kind of unlucky event ... I bet there's a lot of clever and quiet murder that goes on in the world with a plausible deniability, alibis and everything else set up. The murderer carefully covers up evidence of sabotage or malice and the victim succumbs. People think "oh my, what a tragic accident" and r…

I find your comment in poor taste, but I'll bite because it's kind of interesting.

I'd recommend watching The Perfect Murder[0] documentary, although what they detail isn't exactly practical. Less than 15% of murder is committed by strangers [1].

I think if you aren't caught directly after the initial act, you don't have any relation to the victim and no DNA is left, your chances of "getting away" is relatively high.

Your comments on a "malfunctioning car" are misguided, given that any fatal automobile accident, provided the reason the driver "crashed" is not apparent, will result in someone looking at the car to see WHY it malfunctioned. A cut brake line or similar would obviously scream foul play.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjEBb4LhQdU

[1] https://top5ofanything.com/list/8a1bf3d1/Murders-by-Relation...

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#154

Post by jkot »

sharemywin wrote: post #45
Negative1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should also never walk on a sidewalk, for fear of bumping into someone who trips and falls and sues you for personal negligence. You may be safe if you insure for this, though. Ask your Attorney.

wonder if a general liability policy would cover this sort of thing although they would probably just settle. of course they might show up with an army of lawyers.

In this case it would not help. He got sued and did not cooperate with court, insurance would not cover that.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#155

Post by sgustard »

adekok wrote: post #132
nickff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination, and that the majority of judges understand that this type of suit is ridiculous, but they have no tools to stop it.

> The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination, Judges are supposed to use some digression. I doubt very much that the litigants losses for a $40 printer are $30K. Especially since he conveniently lost the printer. I just don't believe that there are any laws which require the judge to (a) decide in the litigants favor with zero supporting evidence, and (b) allow $30K in damages…

As quoted, "Edens acknowledged the amount is "seemingly high" and the judgment "may seem extreme for the breach of contract for the purchase of a printer." But he wrote that he's constrained by how the Supreme Court had previously interpreted a state trial rule, called Rule 36, which sets the 30-day deadline for responding to requests for admissions."

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#156

Post by jeffmould »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #150
wl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can avoid adverse judgements by just not showing up for court, you incentivize people to not show up. That's not any more fair. There has to be something to lose for not showing up and default is what the legal system has chosen.

>If you can avoid adverse judgements by just not showing up for court // That's not what the parent said though. If you don't show up IMO the court should not take any default position but should decide the case on the facts put before it. That's not avoiding an adverse judgement, that's just not assuming one side is right just because the other side hasn't presented its case.

That doesn't work either. What happens, for example, if I sue you, you don't show up, I tell the judge you owe me a million dollars and show him a bill I printed on my computer that morning for a million dollars. You aren't there to tell the judge otherwise, so going on the "facts" I present doesn't solve the problem either.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#157

Post by dang »

wagglycocks wrote: post #84
BuckRogers wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always done my Craigslist sales that way, sold a number of cellphones at the corner station. Then tried to sell an AppleTV but they wanted to come to my house to make sure it worked. No random Craigslist clown is coming into the house where my wife sleeps, even if I escorted them in with a gun to their head because they could scope it out and come back later. I said I'd record a video of it working and send that…

I admire your cautiousness. You certainly are a strong male and will surely be rewarded with offspring for being such a gallant mate.

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the HN guidelines. If you don't want it to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. We're happy to unban people when there's reason to believe that they'll only post civil and substantive comments in the future.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#158

Post by j2bax »

BuckRogers wrote: post #80
giarc wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use a burner email and never give them your name. Meet in a public place and there's no tracing the item back to you. I imagine if you responded with mycraigslistemail@gmail.com and asked to meet in a public place, if you did happen to come upon a troll, they would stop the deal.

I've always done my Craigslist sales that way, sold a number of cellphones at the corner station. Then tried to sell an AppleTV but they wanted to come to my house to make sure it worked. No random Craigslist clown is coming into the house where my wife sleeps, even if I escorted them in with a gun to their head because they could scope it out and come back later. I said I'd record a video of it working and send that…

This is easy with smaller items, but what if you wanted to sell a couch or a treadmill? In the past I thought it would be nice if there was a sort of consignment style store where people could park their Craigslist goods for people to come look at. I think this might go against Craigslists terms of service though... I am very apprehensive to have strangers over to my house, but I also don't know of a better way to sell these types of items without owning a large truck.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#159

Post by ryan-c »

ryandrake wrote: post #134
Declanomous wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An umbrella policy for general liability seems like it could be really useful. They typically cover rather large sums of money, in excess of one million dollars, and they aren't terribly expensive. I can imagine someone suing over a misunderstanding because of an X/Y problem. Person A asks a really obtuse programming question, Person B answers it literally, and then Person A goes on to use Person B's answer to build…

Navigating into off-topic waters: Where would one go about obtaining such an "umbrella" policy? Just call up the same company that you buy your car insurance from? How do they price this? Do they probe your life to see how risky you are ("ooh, you have a tile floor which is easier to slip and fall on, that'll be $X extra per month!)

Most insurance companies offer them. You will have to raise the liability limits on your car insurance to the maximums if you have a car. I don't think they do any sort of risk assessment specifically for the umbrella policy.

Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist

#160

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #134
Declanomous wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An umbrella policy for general liability seems like it could be really useful. They typically cover rather large sums of money, in excess of one million dollars, and they aren't terribly expensive. I can imagine someone suing over a misunderstanding because of an X/Y problem. Person A asks a really obtuse programming question, Person B answers it literally, and then Person A goes on to use Person B's answer to build…

Navigating into off-topic waters: Where would one go about obtaining such an "umbrella" policy? Just call up the same company that you buy your car insurance from? How do they price this? Do they probe your life to see how risky you are ("ooh, you have a tile floor which is easier to slip and fall on, that'll be $X extra per month!)

[deleted]
Post reply on HN