My civpro prof loved Rule11 and told us many tales of nefarious attorneys being humiliated by judges as punishment for this sort of behavior. It can happen even to the pro se as a party.
Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
131–140 of 232 posts
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or judges? I would want to sue the judge that awarded $30,000 for an allegedly broken printer. Edit: Found this article from Sep. 2014. [0] "The [Indiana] state high court, in an order issued Tuesday, called Zavodnik 'a prolific, abusive litigant' and put him on notice. In the unanimous ruling, the five justices warned the Ukraine-born U.S. citizen that he 'can expect any further abusive litigation practices ... to b…
The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination, and that the majority of judges understand that this type of suit is ridiculous, but they have no tools to stop it.
> The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination,
Judges are supposed to use some digression. I doubt very much that the litigants losses for a $40 printer are $30K. Especially since he conveniently lost the printer.
I just don't believe that there are any laws which require the judge to (a) decide in the litigants favor with zero supporting evidence, and (b) allow $30K in damages for a $40 printer.
FTA, the court of appeals pretty much stated the above The $30,000 in damages "had no basis in reality," Chief Judge Nancy Vaidik wrote.
I'm left wondering why anyone supports a position which the judges describe as having no basis in reality.
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#133> Because Costello did not respond to all three requests for admissions within 30 days of receiving them, and did not ask for an extension of time, as required by Indiana trial rules, Costello admitted to the liabilities and damages by default
This is awkwardly similar to the other John Oliver story in today's HN, in which debt buyers exploit this fact to have as many people admitting liabilities as possible.
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
wonder if a general liability policy would cover this sort of thing although they would probably just settle. of course they might show up with an army of lawyers.
An umbrella policy for general liability seems like it could be really useful. They typically cover rather large sums of money, in excess of one million dollars, and they aren't terribly expensive. I can imagine someone suing over a misunderstanding because of an X/Y problem. Person A asks a really obtuse programming question, Person B answers it literally, and then Person A goes on to use Person B's answer to build…
Navigating into off-topic waters: Where would one go about obtaining such an "umbrella" policy? Just call up the same company that you buy your car insurance from? How do they price this? Do they probe your life to see how risky you are ("ooh, you have a tile floor which is easier to slip and fall on, that'll be $X extra per month!)
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#135Under a sensible legal system, this is a crime. It's called "barratry": filing baseless lawsuits in order to harass or to extract a settlement. In most US jurisdictions, however, it's not legally recognized as a crime, and so it's widespread. From a defendant's point of view, however, it's basically equivalent to getting mugged.
It's usually called vexatious litigation, and many jurisdictions have list of vexatious litigants, whose filings go through a special judicial review before being accepted into the system:
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#136If I'm reading correctly, the key bit is: ----- Because Costello did not respond to all three requests for admissions within 30 days of receiving them, and did not ask for an extension of time, as required by Indiana trial rules, Costello admitted to the liabilities and damages by default. He also did not appear at a July 2013 hearing, according to court records. Costello said he never received the requests for admis…
>If, though, Zavodnik has figured out a way to serve people requests without them actually knowing about it... Well, that seems like a much larger legal loophole that needs closing. Not likely the case. The rules of civil procedure establish the various methods of lawful service of process, as a result there are a lot of safe guards. In fact, it is more likely a Plaintiff's lawsuit is dismissed for failing to properl…
I don't know, my buddy works as a Process Server, and I can imagine lots of situations where the person never actually receives the paperwork.
He only has to try to serve the papers a few times, and then can leave them. If the defendant were out town for a few weeks, he would never get it. He doesn't have to check ID, so someone could say they were the person, he would hand it over, and be done with it. That person might never hand the papers to the right person.
I don't think assuming papers served always get to the right person is a fair assumption.
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#137Would be nice to have a 'loser pays' court system for civil trials. These kinds of trolls would go away quickly.
The problem with 'loser pays' is that it can actually encourage frivolous litigation like this. Often there are civil suits where the defendant and plaintiff agree that there are some valid claims, but they disagree on the specifics and amount of the damages. If the plaintiff knows that eventually they will 'win' their fees and costs regardless, they have an incentive to disagree with settlement offers. It looks like…
> Edit: Possible improvement would be to pay based on the distance between the award and settlement offers?
That's how it works in Germany, basically (the so-called "Baumbach'sche Formel"). You want $30k and get $30: you'll pay (30,000-30)/30,000 = 99.9% of court and attorney's fees. Also, the amount of attorney's fees that can be reimbursed is regulated and therefore capped at a reasonable amount. Finally, you may be required to make a deposit for the court fees beforehand.
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#138Stupid question: if the printer was worth $40 ($75 with shipping) how come the damages are worth $30k ? Even if Costello was right I cannot see how "damages" suffered could exceed those 75 dollars by such a huge margin. In Europe even if he had won the case he would have been awarded $75 in damages, and probably another $50 in legal costs, that's all. Not possible to win $30k out of thin air. But the difference is th…
"Stupid question: if the printer was worth $40 ($75 with shipping) how come the damages are worth $30k" That part is about the admissions, where the plaintiff requested the defendant admit damages were 30k (or whatever), and anything not responded to is considered admitted.
What legitimate use does that request serve?
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
That isn't how it always works. In some countries when the other party agreed to pay $30 up front then they would be considered the winner. You would pay their legal fees for trying to extort $27,970.
Who pays if the actual damages are somewhere in the middle?
You could do it like baseball does arbitration. Each side presents a figure they think is fair, and a judge picks one of the two (she can't pick somewhere in the middle, she has to pick one or the other). That way, each side is encouraged to present a reasonable amount, otherwise the other sides value will be chosen.
Re: Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination, and that the majority of judges understand that this type of suit is ridiculous, but they have no tools to stop it.
> The problem is that it seems that the judge made the legally correct determination, Judges are supposed to use some digression. I doubt very much that the litigants losses for a $40 printer are $30K. Especially since he conveniently lost the printer. I just don't believe that there are any laws which require the judge to (a) decide in the litigants favor with zero supporting evidence, and (b) allow $30K in damages…
suggested edit: s/digression/discretion/