Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#21

Post by dgacmu » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:01 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #5

Unlike the previous accident, which the Tesla S literally doesn't have the sensors to see the above-ground trailer... this Model X crashed into the side of a building. I'd like to assume that the below-chassis sensors would have been able to pick that up. I'm more concerned about edge-cases like the Tesla S autonomous crash rather than cases like this one. My current assumption (pending evidence: we don't have any ye…

Sure it's moral - in fact, it's great. The question of morality only arises if there's asymmetric access to the data. In the event of a claim being made by the driver against the company, both sides should have complete access to the logs data to make their case more firmly. What shouldn't happen is ONLY one party being able to inspect the data.

But this is unlikely to happen in practice. A lawyer for the driver would undoubtedly subpoena Tesla for access to the data. And a reasonable judge would probably concur. IANAL and IANAJ, so the latter is a guess. :)

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#22

Post by djloche » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #6

arcticfox wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story will certainly be more interesting once Tesla publishes the data from their side.

The story is already interesting because Tesla does this, and no other car company seems to. Tesla monitors your driving behavior so that they can save face and blame the driver if things go bad. I don't know of any other car company that does this. Those monitors are installed to protect the company image, not you. Its like you're buying a $100,000 piece of spyware. The car isn't your possession. Its sensor data bel…

This is why I hope that Lyft/Uber/? purchase and run their autonomous fleets as planned. I can keep my gas engine car for longer trips while taking advantage of super low cost robot transport for day to day stuff.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#23

Post by ambulancechaser » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

deegles wrote: post #8

Tesla is quick to publish data that shows driver error, I wonder if they will be as quick to do so if it actually is a software issue. My guess however is that any refusal to publish the black box data will be taken as an admission of guilt. I get the impression that the media is just itching for an actual software error so they can start a FUD firestorm about SDCs.

I don't think they quickly publish data to show data error, but just to refute claims that their product is deficient or dangerous. This might be what you mean but they aren't looking to disparage customers but just to maintain the integrity of their brand to false claims.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#24

Post by davnn » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:05 PM UTC

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #7

I'm very skeptical about it. A lot of accidents happen when people confuse the brakes and acceleration paddle. Furthermore, the person who had the accident claimed the break was unresponsive. This could further mean she confused the paddles and instead of breaking, she accelerated even more. I'm happy to hear, though, that the person was not heavily injured (she had burns on her arms but I don't think they are of the…

I thought the same. Also, a new car feels odd even if you have a clean record. Don't like it when such stories make it into the news before anything substancial is known about the accident.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#25

Post by pj_mukh » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

This is a very bold effort on Tesla's part. Fast deployments of autonomy code has never been tried before. There will inevitably be some casualties (even some deaths) in this process, but no other process can guarantee otherwise. The long term impact on public health is HUGE [1]. Some company just has to figure out how to weather the storm of (possibly irrational) criticism from the first such casualty. The company that can parse through this process and update their methods first will win.

[1] http://www.sciencealert.com/driverless-cars-could-reduce-tra...

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#26

Post by greglindahl » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #7

I'm very skeptical about it. A lot of accidents happen when people confuse the brakes and acceleration paddle. Furthermore, the person who had the accident claimed the break was unresponsive. This could further mean she confused the paddles and instead of breaking, she accelerated even more. I'm happy to hear, though, that the person was not heavily injured (she had burns on her arms but I don't think they are of the…

Given that (1) pressing the wrong pedal is a fairly common accident, (2) the driver was new to Model X, and (3) the Model X has "one pedal" driving, it's extremely likely that the driver thought she was pressing the brake.

Contrary to what the husband says in the article, this problem happens to drivers of all ages.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#27

Post by palakchokshi » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:10 PM UTC

gist wrote: post #17

palakchokshi wrote: post #10

Tesla is famous for publishing the logs. The owner should be aware of this before making claims. It would have been prudent to keep this quiet till Tesla had a chance to respond. Now if the logs prove it was driver error Tesla will publish the logs and all this outrage would be over nothing. On the other hand if this was an error in Tesla's system it is in Tesla's best interest to be transparent and publish the logs…

I would suspect that if Tesla has a rock solid way to determine it was the drivers fault they will fight that till the ends of the earth. (Of course the same could happen even if not the case but that would be a conspiracy and probably less likely for practical reasons).

Considering that the owner's wife said that she tried the brakes but they weren't working I am pretty sure there will be brake usage logs coupled with associated acceleration/deceleration data. That should tell us if the brakes were applied and if they were working. The acceleration logs will also show if the acceleration pedal was engaged at the time or not. I am assuming that an auto acceleration log is different from a hardware pedal usage log. If not we can't determine if the acceleration was due to software or hardware.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#28

Post by chvid » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:11 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #6

arcticfox wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story will certainly be more interesting once Tesla publishes the data from their side.

The story is already interesting because Tesla does this, and no other car company seems to. Tesla monitors your driving behavior so that they can save face and blame the driver if things go bad. I don't know of any other car company that does this. Those monitors are installed to protect the company image, not you. Its like you're buying a $100,000 piece of spyware. The car isn't your possession. Its sensor data bel…

I dunno why you are getting downvoted for saying this. Seems like a very legitimate concern.

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#29

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

davnn wrote: post #24

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #7

I'm very skeptical about it. A lot of accidents happen when people confuse the brakes and acceleration paddle. Furthermore, the person who had the accident claimed the break was unresponsive. This could further mean she confused the paddles and instead of breaking, she accelerated even more. I'm happy to hear, though, that the person was not heavily injured (she had burns on her arms but I don't think they are of the…

I thought the same. Also, a new car feels odd even if you have a clean record. Don't like it when such stories make it into the news before anything substancial is known about the accident.

If news organizations waited for substantial information before publishing, there would be far fewer news organizations and far less news. While this would be great for society, it would be terrible for them....

Re: Tesla Model X autonomously crashes into building, owner claims

#30

Post by Matt3o12_ » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

zerooneinfinity wrote: post #16

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #7

I'm very skeptical about it. A lot of accidents happen when people confuse the brakes and acceleration paddle. Furthermore, the person who had the accident claimed the break was unresponsive. This could further mean she confused the paddles and instead of breaking, she accelerated even more. I'm happy to hear, though, that the person was not heavily injured (she had burns on her arms but I don't think they are of the…

Where did you get your information on the danger of a crash with a tesla vs a regular car? They surpassed every car in collisions tests and the concerns about the battery going up in flames have been fixed since the car was established.

> Where did you get your information on the danger of a crash with a tesla vs a regular car? They surpassed every car in collisions tests and the concerns about the battery going up in flames have been fixed since the car was established.

I'm not saying that tesla is not safe, in fact I'm saying quite the opposite. Tesla is a fast car and if not properly handled, all fast cars are dangerous. Since the 75D's aren't delivered yet, I'd expect it to be a 90D or P90D. The go from 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds. I believe they are fast then any other SUV out there (except prototypes, maybe), when in ludicrous mode.

So, I'd expect that this tesla did not crash with 10mph into the wall. I'd expect a Porshe with similar acceleration to have much more serve damages to the driver. This, once again, shows how safe a tesla is.