Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode • Hacker News Board

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#41

Post by Klathmon » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

rch wrote: post #39

user_0001 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

support and google in the same sentence do not go well together

I'm finding I get excellent service on the products I pay for.

And i get wonderful support even on those I don't...

I've never had a bad support experience with google, from youtube, to gmail, to google apps for work, to some issues with my adsesnse account.

Do those saying they have no support ever try? There are "contact us" links everywhere for most services, and they are really damn responsive when i need to.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#42

Post by bobbyi_settv » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

crucialfelix wrote: post #32

ebbv wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well deprecated may not be exactly the right word, but there's not a single word that is totally accurate. Maybe "sunsetting"? :P

That's essentially what deprecated means. It is discouraged to start new projects with it. It doesn't mean that it's dead, but we seem to always take it that way.

Deprecated implies "will stop being supported soon, so you should stop using it as soon as you can". Maintenance mode implies "will continue to be supported for critical things like security fixes, but won't get new features, so there is no hurry to stop using it if you are fine with it staying in its current form forever".

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#43

Post by rhizome » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

nixgeek wrote: post #18

franciscop wrote: post #3

I am the author of a slightly popular CSS library [1] and JS library [2] and I feel the pain explained here, trying to keep up the pace of issues and PR is daunting. However, cmon Google! You are not a sole developer lost somewhere in Spain. Get your act together and really support your own libraries for a sensible amount of time. Or hire more people to do so. [1] http://picnicss.com/ [2] http://umbrellajs.com/

Not sure if sarcastic or serious. It seems to me that a major problem for Open Source in 2016 is assumption of support from the originating entity or person. Does this base assumption not risk alienating individuals and organisations into saying, "Should I release this at all?". Why should they hire people to support something which generates, as far as I can see, no revenue for Google?

Why should they hire people to support something which generates, as far as I can see, no revenue for Google?

Because it helps people use Material design. I feel this interpretation is supported by the concept of brand advertising, such as Coca Cola commercials not really having a direct effect on sales.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#44

Post by mst » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 6:06 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #28

fridek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how about using the original title - "Surge Focus on Material 2"? It seems more appropriate as nothing in the discussion included a notice on deprecating the 1.x branch.

Since people are concerned with Material 1, we've replaced the title with what seems to be the most representative phrase from the article about Material 1. I couldn't fit in the bit about bugs in the 80 char limit. (Submitted title was "Google deprecating Angular 1.x Material library and is just closing issues and PRs", which was wrongly editorialized, since the article apparently doesn't say they're 'deprecating' t…

Given the exact words of the post, I'd've added "for Q3", since they didn't say the maintenance mode is permanent.

Not sure if that helps that much though.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#45

Post by drawkbox » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 6:38 PM UTC

When using monolithic frameworks you have to be prepared for this moment, EOLing. It suddenly just made lots of Angular 1 apps at companies not very fun to work on.

It is usually around this time (EOL or new flashy framework comes out) that people see past the hype on the last one and then see all the bloat, overly verboseness, and tons of code they didn't write that they have to support now that the hype train has left.

To keep projects from getting to this dungeon, better to use microframeworks while controlling your own systems and not buy into monolithic frameworks that change too much on top of the core with too much abstraction, basically vendor lock-in in a way.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#46

Post by true_religion » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 6:43 PM UTC

bobbyi_settv wrote: post #42

crucialfelix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's essentially what deprecated means. It is discouraged to start new projects with it. It doesn't mean that it's dead, but we seem to always take it that way.

Deprecated implies "will stop being supported soon, so you should stop using it as soon as you can". Maintenance mode implies "will continue to be supported for critical things like security fixes, but won't get new features, so there is no hurry to stop using it if you are fine with it staying in its current form forever".

Actually deprecated implies a deprecation timeline, which can be on the order of years.

Python 2 was deprecated when Python 3 was released, but the timeline of transition was over 10+ years.

Django has deprecation timelines that last over 1.5 years.

In Enterprise, its often seen to have deprecation last 7 years.

During deprecation, only maintenance is performed. That is---security fixes.

The real difference between deprecation and "maintenance mode" is that the later is indefinite and implies continuation until profit-loss. AWSv2 isn't in maintenance mode, its deprecated. Eventually Amazon may stop offering it, and doesn't want you to start using it, but while its in operation that doesn't mean they won't close security holes in services that offer it.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#47

Post by btdiehr » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

spinlock wrote: post #30

LOSEYOURSELF wrote: post #5

The old joke about sleeping through the birth, life, and death of a JS framework is still alive and well I see.

This is just going from version 1 to version 2. It's not like the new framework[1] that's replaced React. /s 1: https://github.com/developit/preact

Except preact won't replace react.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#48

Post by pekk » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #27

pekk wrote: post #17

Sounds like someone is upset their PR wasn't accepted. Poor baby.

Please don't do this here.

Maybe you object to the tone? There is a real community problem with sense of entitlement - just because a project is open source doesn't mean that you are entitled to have every PR accepted to that project. I'm getting tired of this kind of dirty laundry being aired publicly to shame projects into accepting PRs.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#49

Post by beeker87 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 8:20 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #40

beeker87 wrote: post #38

I truly feel sorry for those who started learning web development somewhere between 2009 and 2014. During that time, it seems like what would be accepted as the new standard for creating web applications was completely up for grabs. You had Angular, Backbone, Ember, and probably many others that just didn't get noticed. Can you imagine being a new developer during this time, trying to learn how to create a web applic…

2009-2014 is a huge timeframe for the web, as mobile compatibility became increasingly important. Seven years from now we'll probably be talking about how much the web changed for VR/AR - or something new altogether.

I think the transition could have been much smoother and did not require engineering a new MVC framework on top of an already existing MVC framework. The only thing needed to make a page mobile ready is responsive CSS. What is more of a concern for mobile, and especially was back in 2009, is how much processing power a page needs to render and function fluidly.

The truth is React isn't doing anything that requires new technology, it could've been built in the early 2000's. I guess ideas like Angular taking off are just the natural way of things when you have a big company supporting it. It goes to show though that even the largest companies on the planet sometimes get it wrong (but also get many things right, Google with Golang and Facebook with React). Did it really take 4-5 other inferior frameworks though to see the simplistic idea behind React and build it out? If so, people who see these bad practices happening and are capable of doing something about it should do so immediately, for the sake of the development community.

Re: Angular Material 1 will enter a maintenance mode

#50

Post by dang » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #48

dang wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do this here.

Maybe you object to the tone? There is a real community problem with sense of entitlement - just because a project is open source doesn't mean that you are entitled to have every PR accepted to that project. I'm getting tired of this kind of dirty laundry being aired publicly to shame projects into accepting PRs.

Comments here need to be civil and substantive. Yours was neither. That's more than "tone".

I'm sure there's a civil, substantive way to make your point.