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Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

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Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#171

Post by unclebucknasty »

bduerst wrote: post #114
unclebucknasty wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I'm in favor of the current system, but your argument is flawed. How? Loosening restrictions on sponsorships would invariably result in a net increase in the available labor pool, which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone. This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. So, what you are really advocating is that people without jobs…

>...which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone This is a common misconception about the H1B program. In order to be approved for sponsorship, the immigrant needs to be paid more than citizens who are for working the same job in the same area. If you're going to propose that "loosening" the restrictions means removing this one rule, then you're only creating your own hypothetical problems. Ideally as long…

>the immigrant needs to be paid more than citizens

Not exactly: "You must be paid at least the actual or prevailing wage for your occupation, whichever is higher." [0]

See [1] for info in your area, and you'll understand the potential for taking some latitude with this rule.

>If you're going to propose that "loosening" the restrictions means removing this one rule...

Not sure who is proposing loosening this one rule. My point to the GP was only that removing or significantly loosening the sponsorship rule would not lead to an increase in wages for all, as he/she claimed.

[0] https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupati...

[1] http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStart.aspx

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#172

Post by pkaye »

praneshp wrote: post #139
pkaye wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of problem could also be resolved by adding whistle blower protection to H1B employees against their employers.

You speak as if those employees are poor folks being exploited. They are "in" on the con, they know exactly what they are getting into.

We don't know. There those who in it and there are some who are brought in on different terms and then the rules changed on them. Anyway this will make it easier to enforce because both sides can prove their point by showing bank records of payment. By give the employee sufficient leverage and the employer criminal penalties, it puts the employer on guard to do things correctly and legally.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#173

Post by oceliker »

jacalata wrote: post #155
mahyarm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities already have an unlimited quota for H1Bs, so at least the teachers can get it.

Hmm, cite? People I know at universities aren't on H1B visas.

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/PUBLAW/HTML/PUBLAW/0-0-0...

Relevant part:

SEC. 103. SPECIAL RULE FOR UNIVERSITIES, RESEARCH FACILITIES, AND GRADUATE DEGREE RECIPIENTS; COUNTING RULES.

Section 214(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1184(g)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraphs:

(5) The numerical limitations contained in paragraph (1)(A) shall not apply to any nonimmigrant alien issued a visa or otherwise provided status under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) who is employed (or has received an offer of employment) at--

(A) an institution of higher education (as defined in section 101(a) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001(a))), or a related or affiliated nonprofit entity; or

(B) a nonprofit research organization or a governmental research organization.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#174

Post by bduerst »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #171
bduerst wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone This is a common misconception about the H1B program. In order to be approved for sponsorship, the immigrant needs to be paid more than citizens who are for working the same job in the same area. If you're going to propose that "loosening" the restrictions means removing this one rule, then you're only creating your own hypothetical problems. Ideally as long…

> the immigrant needs to be paid more than citizens Not exactly: "You must be paid at least the actual or prevailing wage for your occupation, whichever is higher." [0] See [1] for info in your area, and you'll understand the potential for taking some latitude with this rule. > If you're going to propose that "loosening" the restrictions means removing this one rule... Not sure who is proposing loosening this one rul…

The point still stands that the immigrants are getting paid at least what citizens are getting paid, which means wages are not going to get driven down.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#175

Post by bduerst »

vostok wrote: post #132
bduerst wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EB-5 requires starting a company and employing 10+ at >$50k/yr, meaning it costs $500,000+. Do you honestly think the H1B visa will bid higher than $500k/yr for base pay for the employee? The lottery evenly distributes amongst the positions based on demand. By switching to wealth, you're creating a system that only the highest-paying job categories will prevail.

I am in an immigrant community where the EB5 is used. It does not cost $500k/year and it is an investment rather than a expense so it is not all comparable to the H1B program.

We're referring to what it would cost for bad actors to abuse the system. Someone was saying that switching to a biddable H1B visa would solve problems because it's just like the EB5.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#176

Post by bduerst »

vostok wrote: post #131
bduerst wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 7% of approved H1B visas last year were with Infosys, HCL, and Cognizant - the three major H1B abusers. The remaining 93% were legitimate hires that would be priced out by the wealthy if there were a way for the wealthy to buy their visas. Just because there is a problem that doesn't justify moving to a solution that destroys it. It's better strengthen enforcement so that fines can be used to make it expens…

The wealthy can already buy their way into a US visa. I am in an immigrant community where this happens. Quite frankly, I think those programs should also be expanded.

At $500k+. Surely you don't believe that H1B visas should cost that much for skilled talent to come to the U.S.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#177

Post by TheCoelacanth »

a_small_island wrote: post #77

So what is actually being paid on these H1B as salary? Using something like h1bdata.info, you can look into any company's filings. For example, the most recent Uber h1b filing[0] has a rate of pay from 110-140k but only a prevailing wage of 68k. Any insight as to what these employees are getting for base salaries? >"F. Rate of Pay 1. Wage Rate (Required) From: $ 115,000.00 To: $ 140,000.00" >"9. Prevailing wage $ 67,…

"Wage rate" is what they are actually being paid. "Prevailing wage" is the legal minimum to be paid for the visa application to be approved for that specific position. Which just goes to show how much of a joke the prevailing wage requirement is, since this person is being paid twice what the supposed prevailing wage for their position is.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#178

Post by vitd »

mh_yam wrote: post #98
qxf2 wrote: post #6

I rarely comment but this story makes me happy enough to do so. I'm a former H1-B with an American Masters degree in STEM. I think this conviction will go a long way in making the system fairer. Here is what happened. H1-Bs must be legally employed all (well most of) the time they are in the USA. To get past that rule, these H1-B shops act as employers and then farm out the employees to other companies. Employers nee…

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

Serious question - I don't in any way intend this to sound inflammatory. If you've been here almost 10 years and have set down roots, why haven't you just applied to be a citizen? It sounds like you want to stay, and frankly, it sounds like it would be good for us to have you. Is there something holding you back beyond just personal preference? (Or are you already in the process but haven't completed it?)

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#179

Post by dragonwriter »

vitd wrote: post #178
mh_yam wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

Serious question - I don't in any way intend this to sound inflammatory. If you've been here almost 10 years and have set down roots, why haven't you just applied to be a citizen? It sounds like you want to stay, and frankly, it sounds like it would be good for us to have you. Is there something holding you back beyond just personal preference? (Or are you already in the process but haven't completed it?)

> why haven't you just applied to be a citizen?

IIRC, an H-1B can't apply to be a citizen, you have to be a permanent resident to do that, which you can only do from an immigrant visa. The H-1B is a "dual purpose" visa, which is a non-immigrant visa that doesn't require you to leave the country before applying for an immigrant visa, but you still have to qualify for one of the immigrant visa categories and make it through any source-country-specific backlog for that category. (And the vast majority of tech-industry H-1B's are from India, which is also near the top for waiting list length in many of the immigrant categories -- including all but one of the Employment-based categories.)

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#180

Post by MrTonyD »

jmspring wrote: post #71
MrTonyD wrote: post #10

I had a friend at HP - who worked in a group arranging for "tourists" to staff HP projects. It was a "secret" group offsite from HQ and they got lists of major development projects. Then they worked with recruiters worldwide to find staff. They would arrange cars at the airport, long term hotels, and rotated teams in and out of the country to keep the project going. They did this for years and years. We need some rea…

I think if H1-B, and skilled visas in general, was truly about skill level and best fit, fine. However, every situation (like Disney) where visas are used to bring in labor to be trained to replace technical workers who may not necessarily be the HN crowd, but are a vital part of business, should be disallowed. If a company wants to offshore, fine, but it shouldn't use the Visa system to have workers being replaced t…

I don't really know if skill level should be the only consideration. I think that every country has an obligation to consider its citizens. I'm not saying that citizenship should be the only consideration - but I do think that it should be a strong one. Here in the US, I know many technical people who hit mid-forties and couldn't find a job anymore, in spite of having great technical skills. So maybe there should be some obligation to make sure that a country's citizens are doing OK before allowing skill to be the primary consideration? I don't know -- but I do know that something is wrong with the way we're doing it now.
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