Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war • Hacker News Board

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#91

Post by nilkn » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:04 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #5

This quote seems very telling: > It used to be that only locals knew all the cut-through routes, but Google Maps and Waze are letting everyone know So they don't have a problem with people cutting through as long as they're "locals"; it's when the outgroup starts doing the same thing that people get up in arms. If the through traffic is breaking traffic laws, that's a solvable problem. If the street has insufficient…

> So they don't have a problem with people cutting through as long as they're "locals"; it's when the outgroup starts doing the same thing that people get up in arms.

That's one (particularly dramatic) way of looking at it. You could also interpret it to mean that it's just about the overall number of people making use of the routes. Adding in non-locals might just push that number over a certain threshold.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#92

Post by zyxley » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #9

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a ticket for one of these types of things, some local ordinance prohibiting through traffic during rush hour. It's a great revenue generator for the local PDs. Lots of one-off traffic laws that people passing through won't (and really, can't) know about.

Don't things like that usually have signs?

I'm sure they do, somewhere that nobody actually driving on one of the streets in question will ever see it.

> "But the plans were on display..."

> "On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

> "That's the display department."

> "With a flashlight."

> "Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

> "So had the stairs."

> "But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

> "Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'"

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#93

Post by iamdave » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:06 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #10

FroshKiller wrote: post #2

I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. The city created a three-way stop before th…

I may own property on your street but that doesn't mean I can build a garbage incinerator on it. It's a zoning issue, and indeed there are already provisions that e.g. large trucks may not use some residential streets. Pouring more concrete is not the solution, it's a policy problem, particularly when rat runs are used to circumvent congestion charges. (That's not to say we shouldn't build more traffic calming for re…

I may own property on your street but that doesn't mean I can build a garbage incinerator on it.

Maybe not, but I think the conceit here isn't about what you do on your property vs. utilization of public roads by...well...members of the public.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#94

Post by jedberg » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

jdblair wrote: post #17

The City of Berkeley, CA, fixed this problem a long time ago, before Waze or even widespread GPS. Every few blocks they block side streets to all vehicles except bicycles. The effect is to be forced to take right or left turns that guide you back to the main through street. Streets parallel to the through streets that are now impassible to cars are marked as "bicycle boulevards" and provide safer routes for cyclists.…

> Residents still have easy access to the main roads.

Except that we don't. It's annoying to have to "go around the long way" every day. That being said, I still think it's the right solution.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#95

Post by osi » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

danra wrote: post #73

I simply hate it when Waze navigates me through a dozen small streets I'm not familiar with, just to save one minute vs. taking a main road. The multiple suggested routes often don't mitigate this enough. Wish for a feature to turn a preference for main roads in general.

or, the overall improvement for a "shortcut" needs to be a reasonable percentage of the time spent on a trip.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#96

Post by gaius » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

FroshKiller wrote: post #2

I'm a homeowner and an active Waze user. The street I live on is not "my" street. It's a public street that any licensed driver may use. I did have an issue with drivers coming around a blind curve too quickly to be safe, though, so I did what these homeowners ought to be doing and contacted my local government about getting my street assessed for a traffic calming project. The city created a three-way stop before th…

So Waze makes profits and the taxpayer foots the bill? That's why these so-called "disruptive" companies annoy so many people.

Unless of course Waze paid the full cost of that little town planning and civil engineering project? But I doubt it.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#97

Post by osi » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #76

hans wrote: post #22

Homeownership is so overrated, not so sovereign after all..

I don't understand. Your expectation is that if you buy a home, you should be able to prohibit people from using the public street in front of it?

sadly, yes, that is common. "i bought this house, it is my right to park on the street in front of it"

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#98

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #39

Ithaca had this problem arise spontaneously about a decade ago. If you're driving to the Wegmans supermarket from east of town, the official routes you are supposed to use are badly congested, and drivers "in the know" have long been aware you can save a few minutes sitting in traffic by going through a certain residential neighborhood. When they put traffic calming in place and made it illegal to drive through the n…

[deleted]

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#99

Post by gaius » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

HillaryBriss wrote: post #30

paulddraper wrote: post #4

If it's faster to take a neighborhood street than the interstate , there's a problem. It's not normal. It sounds like residents are at war with transportation infrastructure instead.

There seems to be a new reality, a new problem with population growth and GDP fetishism: GDP rises with the number of people participating in the economy, true. But GDP and accompanying tax revenues don't rise enough . Infrastructure becomes overloaded and the government fails to expand capacity sufficiently. Tax revenues rise somewhat, but, again, not enough to pay for the necessary expansion. Traffic gets worse. On…

GDP/capita is the important figure.

Re: Traffic-weary homeowners and Waze are at war

#100

Post by breischl » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

Piskvorrr wrote: post #87

breischl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but traffic calming usually involves some or all of: planning studies, committee meetings, community outreach, and voting, and building & maintaining physical infrastructure. Changing the app to just not route through there is far cheaper, easier, and faster.

Easier, you say? Now someone has to curate the list of "forbidden streets," someone has to keep track of who's allowed to request additions/removals, you obviously need to add that into the algorithms somehow, etc. So, you're not actually solving anything: you're just passing the buck, pushing the traffic planners' job to Waze. And guess what: there isn't One Waze To Rule Them All - push a blocklist hard enough, and…

Spoken like someone who has never witnessed the process of changing streetscapes.

There's a project on another street near me to do some traffic calming along a ~10 block stretch. It's actually a relatively small project - they're going to move the existing street parking out next to traffic, move the existing bike lane next to the curb, and make a few minor pedestrian & signage improvements. That effort has been going on for literally years, has taken time from dozens (maybe hundreds) of people, and will probably cost a 6 or 7 figure amount of money.

That kind of investment makes sense when you're dealing with a long-term, ongoing problem. When it's a two-week problem due to construction, it's completely ridiculous. Software is many orders of magnitude easier to change than the physical world.