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Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

computerworld.com

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Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#101

Post by surfmike »

mh_yam wrote: post #98
qxf2 wrote: post #6

I rarely comment but this story makes me happy enough to do so. I'm a former H1-B with an American Masters degree in STEM. I think this conviction will go a long way in making the system fairer. Here is what happened. H1-Bs must be legally employed all (well most of) the time they are in the USA. To get past that rule, these H1-B shops act as employers and then farm out the employees to other companies. Employers nee…

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

One thing that helps at least is that the H1B lottery cap doesn't apply to students who got a graduate degree in the US. ie there are unlimited H1B visas for people in that boat.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#102

Post by [deleted] »

mh_yam wrote: post #98
qxf2 wrote: post #6

I rarely comment but this story makes me happy enough to do so. I'm a former H1-B with an American Masters degree in STEM. I think this conviction will go a long way in making the system fairer. Here is what happened. H1-Bs must be legally employed all (well most of) the time they are in the USA. To get past that rule, these H1-B shops act as employers and then farm out the employees to other companies. Employers nee…

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

[deleted]

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#103

Post by chime »

surfmike wrote: post #101
mh_yam wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

One thing that helps at least is that the H1B lottery cap doesn't apply to students who got a graduate degree in the US. ie there are unlimited H1B visas for people in that boat.

Is that already a law?

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#104

Post by unclebucknasty »

enraged_camel wrote: post #73
unclebucknasty wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I'm in favor of the current system, but your argument is flawed. How? Loosening restrictions on sponsorships would invariably result in a net increase in the available labor pool, which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone. This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. So, what you are really advocating is that people without jobs…

>>This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. It doesn't technically restrict them, but the window for changing jobs is so short that the employees are practically anchored to the employer. In addition to the short window, changing jobs during H1B also resets the immigrant's place in the green card queue, which can cost them years and years of progres…

You didn't process my comment fully.

I was referring to the downward pressure on all wages (and U.S. workers in particular), not those of H1-B holders. This (and my entire comment) was a rebuttal of the GP and should be read in that context. Having workers stay in the country without jobs increases labor supply, which means lower wages for U.S. workers, contrary to the GP's counter-intuitive assertion. It's simple supply and demand.

But, in general, what you're describing is not the intent of the H1-B program. The purpose of that program is to allow companies to "import" supplemental labor in certain specialty fields when there is no local talent available.

It is specifically a non-immigrant visa. However, people have subsequently come to view it as an immigration path and, hence the "binding" to a sponsor as unfair. But, if you go back to the original intent, the worker has agreed to enter the country at the pleasure of their sponsor.

Now, if you want to do away with the H1-B concept, allow companies to hire anyone from anywhere, and allow those workers to switch employers at will, then OK. But, you have to call it something else and assess the impact accordingly. That takes us back to increased labor supply and lower wages for all. There are people who don't like that idea.

It's obviously unpopular to say this, but that makes it no less true. And, if you really want to address the abuses or find a more equitable situation for visa holders, then you have to start by acknowledging the current reality.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#105

Post by unclebucknasty »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #52
moon_of_moon wrote: post #32

If they made the H1-B system fairer for the immigrant workers, so that they their employability wasn't tied to a sponsorship, it would actually be better for American workers. How? Because H1-B employees cannot transfer out easily and live in fear of losing their jobs, because it means packing up and going home. (I can only imagine how much managerial abuse and in the worst case, sexual harassment this situation can…

Not that I'm in favor of the current system, but your argument is flawed. How? Loosening restrictions on sponsorships would invariably result in a net increase in the available labor pool, which would put downward pressure on wages for everyone. This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. So, what you are really advocating is that people without jobs…

I'm seeing downvotes, but no valid rebuttals. I suppose the truth is uncomfortable for some.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#106

Post by ninja_to_be »

surfmike wrote: post #101
mh_yam wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat (bachelors + masters from US universities and on H-1B). I've been in the US for almost 10 years now since undergrad and have put down roots (friends, acquaintances, credit history, etc). It is very unfair for us to be put into the same bucket as body shop labor from India. I personally know several people who were forced to leave the US because they didn't get chosen in the H-1B lottery. There n…

One thing that helps at least is that the H1B lottery cap doesn't apply to students who got a graduate degree in the US. ie there are unlimited H1B visas for people in that boat.

It is not unlimited, but there is a separate lottery for 20,000 visas for advanced degree holders.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#107

Post by someguydave »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #104
enraged_camel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>This is because the program as-is does not restrict people from changing jobs. It just requires a sponsorship. It doesn't technically restrict them, but the window for changing jobs is so short that the employees are practically anchored to the employer. In addition to the short window, changing jobs during H1B also resets the immigrant's place in the green card queue, which can cost them years and years of progres…

You didn't process my comment fully. I was referring to the downward pressure on all wages (and U.S. workers in particular), not those of H1-B holders. This (and my entire comment) was a rebuttal of the GP and should be read in that context. Having workers stay in the country without jobs increases labor supply, which means lower wages for U.S. workers, contrary to the GP's counter-intuitive assertion. It's simple su…

>what you're describing is not the intent of the H1-B program

Why does the "intent of the H1-B program" matter to anybody?

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#108

Post by yanilkr »

* * un popular opinion alert * *

I don't think the employers in this case deserve prison time. I understand they are being made example of. This law breaking of h1b ranges from subtle to glaringly wrong. Where should we draw the line?. What about all the other consulting companies that do the same thing but have enough influence that they can get out of being caught? Out of all the people abusing this system, how is that the names of the convicted people look foreign?

The employment model of these convicted people benefits from a very bad and outdated h1b law. They find talent every year and get the paperwork done, hope the lottery wins them some visas and then rent out the talent. In good times, the employer saves and in bad times shares the misery with the employees. Some employees might understand this and some don't. They are meeting the demands of market that allowed them to sustain. The employees sign up for this knowing all well what is happening.

The employer should compensate the other employees for their losses and they should be not allowed to hire any other foreign worker. Anything beyond that is excessive.

This is another case of a developer blaming the user.

Re: Judge sends two to prison for 7 years for H-1B fraud

#110

Post by bduerst »

qxf2 wrote: post #6

I rarely comment but this story makes me happy enough to do so. I'm a former H1-B with an American Masters degree in STEM. I think this conviction will go a long way in making the system fairer. Here is what happened. H1-Bs must be legally employed all (well most of) the time they are in the USA. To get past that rule, these H1-B shops act as employers and then farm out the employees to other companies. Employers nee…

Thank you for clarifying. I think one of the biggest problems with immigration in the U.S. is that citizens aren't that knowledgeable in the H1B approval process, and tend to attribute these abusers to all H1B sponsors.
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