Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters • Hacker News Board

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#401

Post by mixmastamyk » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

The parent posts this pretty regularly, and I followed up with him. Turns out if you are a US citizen it's not going to happen. Not sure why he keeps posting here as a majority of people are in the US, with no warning given.

Was mildly annoyed at having my time wasted.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#402

Post by _nedR » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #97

akerro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

If you were to have kids, think about the financial security owning a home provides them.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#403

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

_nedR wrote: post #402

enraged_camel wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

If you were to have kids, think about the financial security owning a home provides them.

What financial security? I take it you have completely forgotten about the 2009 crash?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#404

Post by majewsky » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #401

s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

The parent posts this pretty regularly, and I followed up with him. Turns out if you are a US citizen it's not going to happen. Not sure why he keeps posting here as a majority of people are in the US, with no warning given. Was mildly annoyed at having my time wasted.

> "If you are from the EU and thinking to move"

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#405

Post by boulos » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

It seems like the submitter meant to link to the "story" of the same title (http://www.swissinfo.ch/directdemocracy/vote-june-6_basic-in...) rather than editorializing a voting results page.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#406

Post by ZoeZoeBee » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

illumen wrote: post #396

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a factual remark, though and its quite simple math. If 15% of the population is 5.5 times more likely to be charged than the remaining 85% of the population in order for that to be true the 15% of the population must account for 85% of the instances. 15.5* 5.5=85 + 15.5 = 100 Those numbers are in the Bra report its not difficult to deduce... There is something wrong with reporting if less than 3% of rapes are…

I think it's much more likely the police are afraid of being accused of racism. I did some more reading and found this: "The report is based on statistics for those "suspected" of offences for reasons of comparison, but Stina Holmberg of the Council for Crime Prevention said that there was "little difference" in the statistics for those suspected of crimes and those actually convicted. " It seems those 5.5 times more…

The Stina Holmberg quote you give is in relation to overall crime stats, not rape... http://www.thelocal.se/20051214/2683

It is an issue when the police cannot describe the suspects ethnicity out of fear of being called racist

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#407

Post by _9MOTHER9HORSE » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #356

_9MOTHER9HORSE wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do incur a lot more costs as a property owner than as a renter, which you should bear in mind. Over the life of your average 20-25 year mortgage you should expect to have to replace numerous appliances, encounter a couple of catastrophic and unexpected issues (leaking roof, etc.), and after 10 years the decor will be outdated and shabby. To get optimum resale value you will have to sink a lot of time/money into r…

All of those costs are simply amortized over the rental agreement. I'm not sure why people who rent seem to think landlords are appliance/maintenance charities.

Not necessarily. When the capital gains from simply sitting on a property are so great, I'm sure a lot of landlords are actually making a net loss on a renting operation, and don't care all that much.

Regardless, the point is that a lot of people see the mortgage repayments equalling the rent and don't think about the extra costs of ownership.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#408

Post by okc » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #178

akerro wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, the burden of being rooted, and of having to maintain a house, could be such a significant detraction to quality of life that it totally makes up the difference. Yea, so I'm renting a house where my agreement states that I am not allowed to fix or improve the flat myself. All changes must be agreed and made by agency. Current faults in the flat include: leaking water from toilet flush since seal is broken, rep…

Sure, but you shouldn't be surprised to hear that many rental experiences are much more positive than that, or that many people's situations lead them to totally difference conclusions. I've listed a bunch of reasons. You wrote "I never understood how people can not own a house and waste money on renting for decades" above, and my response is "It's easy to understand. Take my perspective as one of the millions of exa…

My experience (UK) is that landlords screw people over where they can - they want to make money but actually have a social responsibility for housing conditions. Most people I know live in horrible conditions for a little less rent or increasingly so more precarious and even less stable house shares. Maybe that's an English problem though.

The interesting question being posed in these threads is a lifestyle choice: ownership or flexibility, lay your roots down or remain agile.

If you have enough money to pick and choose that's great. Otherwise home ownership may be the only route out of a precarious and unstable existence.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#409

Post by molmalo » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

shreyassaxena wrote: post #291

a-saleh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question, how does Switzerland avoid becoming more polarized country with so many referendum questions each year? Do you think there is a risk passing a referendum resolution that passed just by a small margin? I have been thinking about this since the result of Austrian presidental elections, and how more polarized the politics in Europe is becoming, while trying to figure out if there is a way how to move politics…

I guess they should add a minimum margin for the referendum to pass a resolution.

That would give an advantage to those who reject the resolution.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#410

Post by bbarn » Sun, Jun 05, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #336

kuschku wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standards of the "City" ending where you go from city style buildings (multiple people per building, density high enough that it’s fully walkable, etc) to suburban or rural style buildings (seperate, one or two family homes, unusable by foot)

Chicago is one of the most walkable cities in the country. Moreover, the stuff people actually want to go to --- the various bar and restaurant districts, &c --- are in the residential north side of the city, not downtown, which basically shuts down at 6PM. Almost every neighborhood in the city has a mix of freestanding single family homes, townhouses and 3-flats, and dense apartment buildings.

Are most other big cities like the loop after business hours? I'm always shocked at how deserted it is on weekends, and evenings aside from the odd theatre traffic.