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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#341
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, the burden of being rooted, and of having to maintain a house, could be such a significant detraction to quality of life that it totally makes up the difference. Yea, so I'm renting a house where my agreement states that I am not allowed to fix or improve the flat myself. All changes must be agreed and made by agency. Current faults in the flat include: leaking water from toilet flush since seal is broken, rep…

>>Yea, so I'm renting a house where my agreement states that I am not allowed to fix or improve the flat myself. That's the beauty of renting: if you don't like your current agreement, you can find another place with more preferable terms. Plenty of landlords allow tenants to change/improve the property. Whereas when you buy a house, you are stuck with the same neighbors (and sometimes the same HOA) for a much longer…

Why not just rent out your property to somebody else so you no longer have to pay the mortgage on it, then move somewhere else?

As an owner you get whatever agreement you wish to make with yourself.

However, you are right, it's slightly harder to move from owned property to owned property, so in many jurisdictions, property owners have significantly more rights about neighboring land usage than do renters.

For example, I once had a neighbor who was running an illegal business out of their house and causing all kinds of chaos. I presented evidence to the courts that their business was causing real estate market depreciation and was "damaging" the value of my property. The judge ordered them to cease immediately or pay me $50k in assessed depreciation. They shut down their business, put their property up for sale and were gone within a month, they paid my court costs as well. I had on my side, the HOA, local Sheriffs, county zoning inspectors, county ordinances, state ordinances and the agency responsible for handling business registrations. The actual time in court was less than 1 hour. My property value rebounded the full amount and my new neighbors were great.

On the other hand, when I was renting, I once had a neighbor with a serious drug addiction problem, who was stabbed once by a homeless man he let into his apartment so they could do heroin together. Even though he presented a clear danger to the entire community, it took 90 days to have a community hearing to evict him from the property. I could have left sooner, but would have had to pay a penalty to break the lease early and by this point local rents had gone up about 10%. So I would end up paying more to live, and be out the penalty of two months rent. I had on my side approximately nobody. When he was finally evicted, he was replaced by another recovering drug addict who occasionally lapsed and we'd find high in the stairwell. This was in a very nice area I might add -- and the county had selected our building as a pilot "integration program" for people coming out of non-violent criminal and drug rehabilitation programs. They had hoped that being around a nice environment might help them out.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#342
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto was/is like this too. It's a pretty big city similar to Chicago. All of the houses are >$1 million now in Toronto proper. Now the only thing being built are hundreds of cookie cutter condos right in the downtown core. So many were built in recent years that the price of condos actually went down for the first time in forever while house prices continued to rise.

You can get a decent house in a nice neighborhood on the north side of Chicago for around 200k.

That might be realistic for a condo, but a single family home at that price would have to be a serious fixer-upper or have some other significant flaw (near gang areas, etc.). The types of homes most urban professionals would consider suitable are hard to find under $500k in Chicago. And if you're targeting one of the few decent public school districts, even that number is a stretch.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Chicago, the third-largest city in the US, is single-family houses with yards. For that matter, when I lived in San Francisco back in 99-2001, I had a yard.

The standard Chicago city lot is only about 25' wide though. The houses are very close together, with a tiny front yard and a slightly large back yard but only a narrow strip on either side.

Less lawn care. :-) That said, there are large pockets on the northwest side that have lot sizes comparable with some near suburbs.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#344
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a waste if you don't put the difference to work in some way. Owning a house outright is great (I'm 1/3 of the way there) but for most, a 30-year mortgage is no more of a wise decision than a rental. You're just swapping landlord for bank.

Exactly. You are either renting the money or the house. You might as well put your equity into a diversified mutual fund. However, there are massive nonfinancial benefits of owning a home, don't forget

Assuming you can rent or buy an equivalent property, in most markets, the monthly outlay is approximately the same. There's very few circumstances where a renter has such an excess of money that they could make any meaningful gains off of alternative investments.

Over time this changes, assuming the renter and the owner have incomes that increase, rent also increases on the same property over time (usually on about par with inflation, but sometimes faster), while the owner's mortgage stays fixed. As a percentage of income, it's the owner who's more likely to have excess income they can be investing elsewhere.

After 30 years (or repayment of their mortgage if sooner), the owner's property is as close to free as you can get and they can invest all of the money the renter is now spending.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being able to buy a house near work is pretty common for younger people these days across the world.

Not wanting to buy a house seems pretty common for younger people, at least in my experience (in various parts of the US). I think young people realize that the suburban dream was just that.

Young people almost always change their mind about that once they have kids. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#346
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a decent house in a nice neighborhood on the north side of Chicago for around 200k.

That might be realistic for a condo, but a single family home at that price would have to be a serious fixer-upper or have some other significant flaw (near gang areas, etc.). The types of homes most urban professionals would consider suitable are hard to find under $500k in Chicago. And if you're targeting one of the few decent public school districts, even that number is a stretch.

No, this is just not true at all. Sorry. Read the other branch of this thread.

For what it's worth: I paid nothing close to 500k in Oak Park, 5 minutes on foot from the Green Line, in one of the best school systems in the area.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#347
post #248
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare is guaranteed in Switzerland in the sense that you are forced by law to have insurance (you can get subsidies if you're poor enough, though). And the basic insurance coverage may not be up to USA standards (you may share the hospital room with five other patients, for example).

What are these USA standards you are talking about (just curious)?

I don't know, which is why I said "may". I think part of the higher spending in healthcare the US may be due to a higher level of service (which in fact may not be really needed in some cases). Of course there are many other reasons (for example, doctors are paid much better in the US: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doc... ).

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. Discussion is over! This isn't the context for a rebuttal of your suggestion that unfounded accusations abound reg…

""" I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. Discussion is over! This isn't the context for a rebuttal of your suggestion that unfounded accusations abound…

Why are you conflating "hateful comments" with violence?

You are the only one who seems to be arguing in favor of violence.

You apparently want violence done by the state to happen to people who merely make "hateful comments". Aka, people who make statements you disagree with. Nice tolerance there, bro.

Changing laws should be done through the legal process. Even if the laws changing happen to be something you that personally disagree with.

You are the fascist if you believe that the people you disagree with should be silenced.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which standards would those be?

The standards of the "City" ending where you go from city style buildings (multiple people per building, density high enough that it’s fully walkable, etc) to suburban or rural style buildings (seperate, one or two family homes, unusable by foot)

I live in a neighborhood of 25k people in Chicago that precisely matches that standard. It is surrounded on 3 sides by similar neighborhoods (and a lake on the other). Those style neighborhoods are the norm in Chicago. Further, there are many Chicago suburbs that match that description.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#350
post #337
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a couple people in NYC who do something like this. It works fine for two smallish niche groups: well-off childless couples who prefer not to spend much time in their city, or very well-off couples with children. Single people don't want to spend their weekends alone in a farmhouse, and 3+ person families don't want to live the bulk of their time in a studio apartment. Meanwhile, that 300-500k dollar farmhouse…

300-500k seems really high for a farmhouse unless it comes with a lot of land.

Within weekend distance of NYC?
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