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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

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Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#331

Post by lunchables »

chvid wrote: post #139

I think this is a nice demonstration of how well direct democracy can work. The argument against direct democracy (referendums on any subject any sizeable group wants to put on vote) is that people will be economically irresponsible and vote themselves popular, expensive goodies with no regards of financing or cost. This shows otherwise.

I think it showed that 20-25% of people did exactly that. Probably correlates highly with the number of people that would have benefited from a direct income. I don't think this proved what you wanted to prove at all.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#332

Post by kuschku »

kasey_junk wrote: post #310
mortehu wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But by European standards, Chicago is a small city of about 100,000 people surrounded by an enormous commuter town.

Which standards would those be?

The standards of the "City" ending where you go from city style buildings (multiple people per building, density high enough that it’s fully walkable, etc) to suburban or rural style buildings (seperate, one or two family homes, unusable by foot)

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#333

Post by cplease »

omonra wrote: post #298
ZeroFries wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you account for all the wasted space when the houses aren't in use? The extra costs?

Same way you account for the time your car is not being driven - you consider the total cost of ownership vs benefits and your ability to afford it.

This is a bad analogy missing the point that ZeroFries was making. A car's lifespan is mostly determined by mileage. When a car is not being driven its condition and value is largely unchanged. It is not analogous to a vacant house. If you drive a car twice as much of the time it will have to be replaced nearly twice as soon.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#334

Post by DaveSapien »

dom96 wrote: post #305
s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

You might not be the right person to ask this, but maybe somebody else from Switzerland will be able to. I'm starting a coding internship in Geneva in about two months and I was wondering whether you would have any advice about renting apartments in the area. For example, should I be trying to find apartments in France, or am I better off sticking with Switzerland. Should I be getting in touch with estate agents in t…

Just a quick bit of advice. Getting a flat from an agent is very hard if you're not friends with them. I've seen this first hand. Bizarrely it can be just as cheap getting an air b&b for a few months at a time. Also it is absolutely worth looking in to a place across the border in France, it's cheaper, not that far away, and public transport is pretty good. I've been here for 6 months or so, but leaving soon... its really not the city for me.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#335

Post by DaveSapien »

dom96 wrote: post #305
s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

You might not be the right person to ask this, but maybe somebody else from Switzerland will be able to. I'm starting a coding internship in Geneva in about two months and I was wondering whether you would have any advice about renting apartments in the area. For example, should I be trying to find apartments in France, or am I better off sticking with Switzerland. Should I be getting in touch with estate agents in t…

Just a quick bit of advice. Getting a flat from an agent is very hard if you're not friends with them. I've seen this first hand. Bizarrely it can be just as cheap getting an air b&b for a few months at a time. Also it is absolutely worth looking in to a place across the border in France, it's cheaper, not that far away, and public transport is pretty good. I've been here for 6 months or so, but leaving soon... its really not the city for me.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#336

Post by tptacek »

kuschku wrote: post #332
kasey_junk wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which standards would those be?

The standards of the "City" ending where you go from city style buildings (multiple people per building, density high enough that it’s fully walkable, etc) to suburban or rural style buildings (seperate, one or two family homes, unusable by foot)

Chicago is one of the most walkable cities in the country. Moreover, the stuff people actually want to go to --- the various bar and restaurant districts, &c --- are in the residential north side of the city, not downtown, which basically shuts down at 6PM.

Almost every neighborhood in the city has a mix of freestanding single family homes, townhouses and 3-flats, and dense apartment buildings.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#337

Post by Retric »

rm999 wrote: post #276
funkyy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can buy studio in the city and huge farm house with land 1 hour drive away... Then weekends spend in your farm house and weekdays in your studio... It would be close enough to pop in in week days also. 1 hour drive aint bad.

I know a couple people in NYC who do something like this. It works fine for two smallish niche groups: well-off childless couples who prefer not to spend much time in their city, or very well-off couples with children. Single people don't want to spend their weekends alone in a farmhouse, and 3+ person families don't want to live the bulk of their time in a studio apartment. Meanwhile, that 300-500k dollar farmhouse…

300-500k seems really high for a farmhouse unless it comes with a lot of land.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#338

Post by rasur »

vikascoder wrote: post #300
funkyy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can buy studio in the city and huge farm house with land 1 hour drive away... Then weekends spend in your farm house and weekdays in your studio... It would be close enough to pop in in week days also. 1 hour drive aint bad.

Or that a Doner Kebab in Zurich is 20 dollars and up. That's US salary alright bit US price of living? Hell no

As a regular Zürich Döner eater, I'd be curious to see these fabled 20$ equivalent Döners. Mine are always in the 10/11CHF range (~$11).

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#339

Post by usrusr »

ck2 wrote: post #100
elcapitan wrote: post #4

I wish I would live in a country where essential political decisions like that are made by the people and not by some professional political elite in a far away capital.

Yes but I also want to know how many millions were spent on advertisements trying to persuade "the people" one way or another by the political elite. Because the first referendum that should be called for in a country that has 1:1 voting on issues is to end all political advertisements.

Call it defeatist if you like, but the last thing you should want is that kind of spending getting forced underground. You said it yourself, "one way or another".

The money is there, it "wants" to get spent, the more openly that happens, the less harm will be done. If you don't give it a channel it will find one.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#340

Post by tptacek »

jordanb wrote: post #330
tptacek wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister just last year bought a house in Jefferson Park for around that, and her neighbor's house just went up for less than 200. I'm sure it's not the best house in the world, but it's a nice neighborhood walking distance from a blue line station.

I don't know about the particulars of their places. The only properties I've seen in Jeff Park for that cheap have been Bank Owned, in need of serious rehab, or have some other mitigating issue like being on a short lot.

My sister's place is almost as big as mine in Oak Park. We could haggle over whether nice houses cost 200 or 250k, but for starter homes (the kind you'd pay over 1MM for in SFBA) in the city itself, that's the range.

Obviously, if you're looking to buy in Lakeview or Logan Square or Lincoln Square, the numbers change. But I don't know why you'd want to do that.

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