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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

swissinfo.ch

251–260 of 600 posts

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#251
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can buy studio in the city and huge farm house with land 1 hour drive away... Then weekends spend in your farm house and weekdays in your studio... It would be close enough to pop in in week days also. 1 hour drive aint bad.

A two hour daily commute is like 12% of your waking hours crumpled and thrown away. That sounds like hell. Two hours is a long time! Sit around for the two hours doing nothing, you'll see.

Two-hour weekly commute.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a given country at a given time, the set of people who are citizens of that country will have a given set of cultural norms, speak a particular language, have a particular understanding of the relation between the government and the people and the law. The immigration of enough people from outside that set will change those attributes, and therefore change how the country is run, which may be displeasing to the or…

If enough local people engage in political activism or other cultural activities, then those attributes may also change. Those changes may be displeasing to people who favor the original values. Therefore, should we also ban political activism? If not, why not? I'm assuming nothing about cultural attributes. I'm simply not understanding why the use of violence to preserve certain statistical distributions of cultural…

> I'm simply not understanding why the use of violence to preserve certain statistical distributions of cultural attributes is justified morally.

So what you're saying is that people in Syria should not resist the invasion by ISIS.

Or that French people should have not resisted the Nazi invasion

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#253
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to restaurants, that is because the waitress makes around 4000 CHF per month; if you're referring to food in supermarket that is because the clerk behind the counter gets 25 CHF / hour and not 7 EUR like in Germany.

So you're suggesting what, gardening? Gardening is great, but it's not responsive to, "the price of food in Switzerland was insane..."

My sister in Geneva sources a lot of her food out of a community garden.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#254
post #44
post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

You are completely ignoring the fact that the cost of living is much higher in Zurich than the rest of Europe. (For example, the rent is around 10 times higher than in Prague). But after-all, you are a recruiter, why would anyone expect you to provide unbiased information, right?

The last sentence of your comment, besides adding nothing to your argument, is way out of line for HN.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#255
post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

What do you mean by direct democracy? Is it a cultural trait or are you actually talking about a system that enforces/delivers direct democracy?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#256
post #35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty clear trend at ~20% across a number of their regions. Unless the uncounted regions are drastically different than the rest of the country I'd say this one is easy to call.

They are drastically different. These are rural, conservative, catholic and weakly-populated regions.

Well, as it turns out not that drastically different.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#257
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to restaurants, that is because the waitress makes around 4000 CHF per month; if you're referring to food in supermarket that is because the clerk behind the counter gets 25 CHF / hour and not 7 EUR like in Germany.

So you're suggesting what, gardening? Gardening is great, but it's not responsive to, "the price of food in Switzerland was insane..."

In Switzerland, imported and unprocessed food is surprisingly cheap. Veggies are maybe 20-30% more expensive than Germany.

Processed food like frozen pizza is expensive as a substantial amount of (manual?), well-paid labour goes into convenience food.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#258
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a pretty good case that a vacuum of talent created by the brain drain in poor countries makes it extraordinarily difficult for those countries to reform their governments and develop in to functional economies.

If those countries wish to keep their slaves inside, they are free to build their own Berlin wall or other barriers to exit. Meanwhile, back in civilization, people aren't property. Similarly, I'm an American working for an Indian company attempting to disrupt multiple US industries. I have no plans to remain remotely attached to the US once our demographic issues start to collapse. Should the US create some sort of…

...once our demographic issues start to collapse.

It's probably a mistake for me to respond to something so vague, but do you think this will happen in USA before most of the rest of the world? Unless you "escape" to Africa, I don't see anywhere better-suited for riding out the Great Aging, in the long term.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#259
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downside are populistic decisions like the Swiss minaret referendum. Now we have the sentence «The construction of minarets is prohibited.» in the constitution. ( https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/... ) I think such regulations should be decreed as a law and not as a constitution norm if at all. But if everybody has a say you get bikeshedding in the constitution.

From a Brit perspective (where we tend to have fewer referenda on bigger issues) the other downside appears the sheer, incredible nastiness of referendum campaigns when instead of campaigning to convince people they're a competent government, the campaign leaders (usually the same elites) are prepared to say literally anything to frighten people into voting a particular direction. Not to mention of course the first c…

> I'm not familiar with the Swiss situation but doubt the constitutional changes around minarets were fought over the merits of Islamic architecture or nuanced arguments about zoning.

It is a misconception to believe that these are the only valid types of arguments against minarets.

There are many that value their own culture and want to keep it that way without necessarily viewing other cultures as inferior.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#260
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> waste money on renting How is renting wasting money? Are you not living in the unit? You're gaining 100% benefit by paying rent and receiving a roof over your head. You must mean a waste by losing out on building equity? That's a crap shoot in itself. A hot housing market and equity can go into the toilet at anytime due to very irrational market conditions. Look at the housing markets of Las Vegas or Miami for exam…

If you look at a place to live as an investment vehicle you are simply looking at it wrong. A home which is paid for is a place you can live without fear of not being able to make the next rent payment. A mortgage is a bit of a jail sentence. Saving money and purchasing a place to live is the right way to do it. No one will tell you that because they dont make money from you putting your money in the market.

But the same could be said about money in the bank: it is insurance against not being able to make the next rent payment.

Saving money is the right thing to do---putting all of your savings into immovable property may not be.

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